I hope the Allied fliers who whined the N1K2 away are having fun now.

[Karnak]

Well, I flew in the CT for 3 hours tonight.  This is what I saw:

2 to 1 odds against the Japanese.

50% of the Allied fighters were P-51s, most of which were flown intelligently enough to run at the slightest disadvantage.

The N1K2s we flew down from A16 were wholly inadequate to stem the tide.

I got shot in my chute for the first time ever in the CT.   to that Allied flier.

The Allies were vulching, a nice MA tactic.


Yeah, this setup is a riot.  Allies, make sure to whine all competive setups away in the future as well.  They're so much better this way.

[J_A_B]

Fly in that new test arena Karnak....free unperked Spit 14's    

J_A_B

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

IJN/A Whine now or forever hold your piece!!
CT is a joke. I hope whomever is in charge of this thing got paid enough for it from the allies. My goodness why do I waist my time on this BBS?....never mind dont answer that!

[HFMudd]

You know, it may be that it is not the CT staffs fault.  People want PTO setups and the CT staff does their best to try to produce one.  But the problem is, historically the Japanese were overmatched and if we want to keep the CT "historic" you just have to live with that.  The Allied planesets simply have too much depth to them for any PTO post 1941 to work right.   This then amplified by the fact that the Allies tend to out number the axis and the fact that you might find yourself facing a P51 with an F4F wingman.  Tactics are little tough there.

to the CT staff.  Hang in there guys, what you do is appreciated.

[Kweassa]

Very true, Mudd.

 ...

 Curtiss, it is not any sort of problem concerning the CT staff.

 Your accusation against the staff members, no matter how much it was from pure exaggeration, was uncalled for. I don't know what your past experience from Warbirds would tell you about "staffs", but to the extent of my knowledge, and as a member who regularly flies in CT as much as the MA, the CT staff are a fair bunch of people you wouldn't find in any other part of the AH community. They are not biased in any sort of way and they never will be.

 This trouble we are going through is regularly met whenever we try a PTO setup at the CT. Current AH just does not have enough IJN/IJAAF planes to bring fair balance no matter how hard "compromises" are dealt, and often there are complaints of how much we should take into for "balance" while at the same time maintaining "historicity". Besides, the Japanese planes were in a large disadvantage in the historical context anyway. The disadvantages of Bf109G-6s against P-47D-11s are relatively marginal, when you compare it with the disadvantages a typical Japanese plane would meet against its US adversaries.

 While it emphasizes on history, CT is also a part of the "game". Therefore, whenever PTO situations are dealt, there will be "compromises" which some would like, and others would hate. This time, it seems a bit unfair to the Axis fans. Other times, it could seem unfair to Allied fans.

 That is all there is to it.

 Even if we get more JP planes to use, the Axis pilots will have to face "jousters" on a regular basis. Some part of the problem just cannot be solved, or requires some very careful organization to be solved.

(I remember flying in CT with hazed in a four plane formation of A6M2s meeting superior numbers of Wildcats. It took some incredible organization and discipline to overcome the disadvantage in numbers, and the virtual USN pilots already knews they shouldn't turn fight Zeros, too. It was a hectic experience, but it was fun. We bragged in brash manner as we shot down all Wildcats we engaged with minimal losses. That's the kind of fun the CT can offer...)

[Karnak]

HFMudd, Kweassa,

That's bunk.

The Allies freely get the P-51B, an aircraft that wasn't present in the Solomons at all, wasn't even in serice yet and there isn't a peep of an objection from the Allies.

The Allies are only too happy to have an advantage above and beyond what they should, but there'll be hell or high water if the Japanese get a bone tossed their way.

The ammount of historical revisionism on this subject is massive.  People consistantly overlook the shortcommings of the Allies aircraft while pointing out the shortcommings of the Japanese at every opportunity.  Its roadkill.

The Allies get all sorts of artificial advantages, yet nothing is said about that.  If the Japanese get anything to try to play balance the game (yes, it is a game) the Allies throw a temper tantrum.


Now, I don't think the CT staff is trying to be biased, I think they're being heavily preasured by the whiny Allies who want their victories handed to them on a silver platter just like in their fantasies.  Its getting really, really hard to fly for the Japanese with the blatant (though not intentional) bias towards the Allies.

In the early war we get super F4F-4s that practically out turn our A6M2s and eat most of an A6M2's ammo load and then in late war we get jacked for our late war fighters and have to fight free P-51s, P-47s, F4Us, ect, ect.  Add to that that 1,000lb bombs are freely available to the Allied fighters, even though they were rarely carried in WWII.

[J_A_B]

The only Allied fighters you will see me in this week when I'm in the CT are P-40's and F6F's if there's no land bases around.  

J_A_B

[Soulyss]

While I do share the opinion that the P-47's and P-51's should be restricted like the N1k is.  To point out one side as being more whiney than the other is ridiculous.  Just like arugments about the side X being better than side Y in the MA don't prove or accomplish anything.  If the situations would have been reversed and all the axis players were flying allied the first night of the setup we'd be right back here in the exact same situation we are now just with different names next to the whines.  Everyone does it regardless of what they fly.  

and for some numbers to chew on for fun, with all due consideration of what stats can and cannot prove.  

In CT tour 8 the A6M5B is

25:27 against the P47-D11
and 43:42 against the P-51B

I'd wager that the Allied offensive tonight in the CT benefitted more from superior numbers and more importantly favorable positioning of the naval assests than from the superiority of their planeset.

[Karnak]

Even with the N1K2 the Japanese were at the disadvantage.  Without it we're roadkill.

[GRUNHERZ]

Well I have noticed that allies outnumber the Axis a lot in the CT. Then they just vulch the hell out of the place. A favorite tactic of the whiney allies is to demand a CV in every CT setup so they can just CV vulch a base and use it is a portable 8th air force of heavy bombers by upping 1000lb bombs every time on f4u and f6f.

A CT scenario I suggested there were no CV ,  a mix of P40E Hurri2C vs 109F and 109E.  This was very well balanced at least the people I asked said so.

Perhaps a good CT setup for the PTo would have P40E vs Ki61.  I dont know if they often met in combat but we know CT historical accuracy is often a joke.  Maybe set it in China/SE asia and screw the CVs.

And Karnak I'm happy you have finally found out about the AH Allied whiner Gestapo. They are the same guys who rabidly attak and insult almost every LW request or concern.  They are and have always been the biggest group of sorry whiners ever in AH.

[J_A_B]

"I dont know if they often met in combat"

A lot, although mostly it was slightly different models of P-40 and Tony.  P-40 vs Tony would be a GREAT CT setup and would actually give the Japanese a slight speed advantage for once.

J_A_B

[HiJack]

Oh Brother, here we go again! Wish it were perfect then every other time you went up you would die next time you would win 50/50 now that would be fun (would be for me, i stink anyway, I was 0 for 5 the other day, mostly to Busc and Mudd in their crummy IJN iron and me in my superior F4 and 51) of course if it were a perfect setup I might have won 1 or 2.  Its never gonna be even and I think I see just as much whine from axis and allies that is 50/50 or should I say 100/100. Good job CT staff, keep up the good work!

[oboe]

I want to believe Kweassa's post, because the success of the CT depends on it, but I can't find evidence of its intent with what's happened in this setup.   We've gone from one ahistorical extreme to another.

The removal of the N1K2 to rear bases has just tipped the play balance scales in the opposite direction.   Add to that 2v1 odds faced by the Japanese and its a tough row to hoe for the IJ forces.  It would be easier to take if it were historical, but its not.

Jarbo, if you are still open to adjustments, please consider implementing Squire's planeset as listed in his recent thread.  (Basically he removes the P-51, P-47, and N1K2).   I think it would be a much better matchup between forces than we have currently, and is more representative of the 1943 Solomons.  I can live with a smaller planeset that is more evenly matched.

With the amount of whining this setup has caused, I'm afraid the CT won't be back to the PTO for quite a while.   I hope you keep experimenting Jarbo, until you hit on something that is better balanced.   We've still got months before v1.11 is out, and no release has had more than two Japanese planes in it anyway.   So we've got to deal with what we have.

Maybe try perking the 1944 planes, and bringing the N1K2 back, or try Squire's setup:

Solomons 1943:
Allies: F4U-1 (land only), P-40E, F4F-4, SBD, TBM, BostonIII (Havoc). Maybe the B-26.

Japanese: Ki-61, A6M2, A6M5 (which DID see service in 1943, and is also an A6M3 stand in), D3A Val, and Ki-67.

[keyapaha]

I havent checked this out but dont the allies have only A1 to fly their p51's and p47's out of .

[Vlasov]

Remind me what is wrong with Warloc's (Squire's) 1943 Solomon's setup?

The P51, P47 and Hellcat don't belong in Slot 43.