Author Topic: Patriotism and Compensation (Read 1870 times)

2Slow · « **Reply #30 on:** September 19, 2002, 01:04:57 PM »

"You've been watching "Starship Troopers" too much. "

The movie was fine, but read the book! RAH had some good ideas.

TANSTAAFL

Wotan · « **Reply #31 on:** September 19, 2002, 01:20:46 PM »

i would make a longer reply but miko covered everything I would say.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #32 on:** September 19, 2002, 01:24:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 10Bears

Oh my, you'd have the Republicans squirming on that one...they depend on KKK members, Aryan prison inmates and trailer park trash for their votes!

Nah, doesn't even come close to the number of votes that the Dems depend on

Thats evident everytime you get a man of color running on a republican ticket or a Supreme court panel, the dems go out of their way to make the person disingenuous. Funny to watch!

gofaster · « **Reply #33 on:** September 19, 2002, 01:46:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago
Nowhere in that quote did he say where the funds are coming from that are being used to compensate the familys of the 9/11 victims. I think he is basically showing his disgust with the greed they are displaying.

That's exactly my point. But I wouldn't say the recipients are greedy - if you pay for insurance, you should get what you pay for. If someone wants to give you money, then you have the right to accept it (so long as its not a bribe or payolla). What Rush was attempting to point out was the inequity being shown towards members of the military by the American public. People were quick to line up to donate funds for civilian victims of the attack, but if they were presented with proposed increases to their taxes to allow for better benefits for servicemen, do you think they would be quite so quick to contribute?

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Originally posted by Dago What he is doing is comparing the members of the military who accept the risks and consequence of going in harms way to protect and serve our nation, and the compensation their families stand to receive if they die doing so, with the compensation supplied to victims families who can't get enough to satisfy their greed. It doesnt matter where the funds come from.
[/B]

Actually, it does, because it shows where the concern and support is generated. Government money is faceless - its from a giant pool of funds called "taxes" that are distributed based on approved budgets. Donated money is personal - people have given money for a specific purpose. The fact that WTC funds are donated and are in greater quantity than government money for servicemen is a strong statement that shouldn't be ignored. There are associations for the branches of the military that strive to improve benefits for servicemen - I was a member of the Air Force Association for a year - but they don't get nearly the support from the public that the WTC relief groups did. Maybe they just don't have the right PR groups. Maybe the AFA should release a video.

The difference between me and Rush is that if I say something inflammatory, its because I want you to think, not because I'm trying to cover overhead expenses and sell commercial space. That's also why I don't like listening to political call-in shows. Most of the time, those guys are fishing for phone calls and playing Devil's advocate to deliberately generate calls and build an audience.

Follow the money.

miko2d · « **Reply #34 on:** September 19, 2002, 01:50:24 PM »

All right-wing talk-show hosts (which I still prefer to liberal ones) are damn hippocrytes - Rush, Sean Hannity, etc.
That is not because the "free market, personal responcibility" part of their philosophy is wrong but because they junk those ideals when they find theselves on the receiving end.

It may seem to a layperson that soldiers' compensation for risk is inadequate - especially in view of other compensations. So what? For the three real patriots we have in our army the good deed and a chance to be given opportnity to murder people is it's own reward. For the guys who went there to get military and other training and have a man made out of them and earn some money and college tuition and quicker citizenship and see the world, the rewards apparently outweight the risks of being killed.

The holy (for conservatives) "Supply and demand" is working just fine here. If the risks were too great, those people would not be in the military but in another occupation. Except if they were loosers who could not succeed elsewhere. But then why would I pay a lot for a looser even on such responcible job?

Maybe if fewer people were willing to take the job for the pittance they receive, our politicians would not be so eager to rattle their sabers. Same goes for police and firefighters. And teachers. Those all provide very important services and if people are not willing to pay for them, I say f$@k the people! Let them do without.
By "patriotically" accepting lousy pay for such jobs those guys are not doing people any favors - corrupting them in effect.

How about another blunder of those self-labeled "conservatives" - "Bush should not wait for Congress approval (of Iraq invasion) because those democrats will not vote to give him a mandate fighting for democracy". Guess what - that is what democracy is about - voting. If our congress votes us into the ground, that is our democratic choice! Calling for the fight for democracy by undemocratic means is not very conservative attitude.

Maybe the AFA should release a video.
Maybe pilots shoule quit and advise the others not to enroll untill their payrates are improved.
At the same time a victim of terrorism can hardly quit. Of course there is something about freely choosing to work in a prime terrorist target in the world.

miko

midnight Target · « **Reply #35 on:** September 19, 2002, 02:18:02 PM »

Good point Miko regarding the free market.

Rush is a lying sack and there is NO excuse for the way he "reports" the news. Even liberals don't have the slant he does.

According to Rush Lyingsack

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Keep in mind that some of the people who are getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough.

Some people? Where? Who?

How about this - Some people feel that their military compensation is just fine.

Rush didn't make any point at all. He started out with a BS premise and that will always lead to a BS conclusion.

fd ski · « **Reply #36 on:** September 19, 2002, 02:19:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort

Oh my, you'd have the Democrats squirming on that one...they depend on minorities, prison inmates and welfare trash for their votes!

You obviously haven't been in military lately.

On my ship close to 50% of sailors were black.
The most represented social class was the kids of welfare parents, trying to get ahead in life.
10% the ship was forginers of all walks of life.

This is on CVN. 5000+ crew.

Rich kids don't die in wars. They join national guard or go to canada.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #37 on:** September 19, 2002, 02:39:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski

You obviously haven't been in military lately.

On my ship close to 50% of sailors were black.
The most represented social class was the kids of welfare parents, trying to get ahead in life.
10% the ship was forginers of all walks of life.

This is on CVN. 5000+ crew.

Rich kids don't die in wars. They join national guard or go to canada.

The ironic part is, the Democrats don't want those Military votes counted, do you know why?

(Psst, has nothing to do with color, but alot to do with moral character) Not quite what happended with you though, figured you used the Navy to get your citizenship? You sound bitter about your service time...

fd ski · « **Reply #38 on:** September 19, 2002, 02:59:25 PM »

What exacly have you done for your country ? Other when whine ?

And what exacly gives you right to question my motives since you are only benefiting from my service while sitting in your nice protected home ?

In famous words of good old Jack

" I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way."

Since you are always so theatrical and extraverted with your patriotism and thankfullness for veterans, you can now thank me nicely, for doing my duty.

Thrawn · « **Reply #39 on:** September 19, 2002, 03:09:13 PM »

Rip, have you ever been in the military?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #40 on:** September 19, 2002, 03:27:57 PM »

I'm not here to defend my actions nor explain how *I* help America, I'm here to ask FDski, who proudly puts down Americans, and their cultures, but enjoys the benefits of America...what purpose you joined the US Navy other than to get a free ticket to the land of honey?

Sandman · « **Reply #41 on:** September 19, 2002, 03:35:19 PM »

I had an entirely different reason for saying that everyone should serve in the military.

Look at the volunteers. Look where the vast majority come from. Now look at the legislators and corporate interests. The latter are the elite. They really have no reason to care about the people that might sacrifice their very lives in service of this country's interests.

Imagine how much they'd care if it were their own kids out on the tip of the sword.

Sure... they all give lip service about patriotism and yadda yadda, but it's just talk. It gets votes and funding.

You want this nation to really care about the well being of people that serve it? They will when the people out risking their lives are family and not just some blip on the shallow end of the demographic spectrum.

fd ski · « **Reply #42 on:** September 19, 2002, 03:48:49 PM »

Your ignorance is showing Rip.

To join US military, you have to be :
a) citizen
b) green card holder.

GreenCard holder will be granted citizenship after 5 years of residency in US, regardless of his service status.
I got my greencard since i happend to be a son of my mother, who in turn "won" it in INS lottery in 1990.
I could have sat on welfare for 5 years and still get my ticket to "land of honey"

Serviceman can apply for citizenship after completing 3 years of service. I applied for mine 7 years after recieving greencard, and 2 years after leaving service.

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who proudly puts down Americans, and their cultures

I guess you missed this:
Article I.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I can have any opinion i want. I AM AN AMERICAN. Doesn't that really burn your bellybutton ?

I've earned that right. What have you done ?
And how dare you question my motives ? I'M A AMERICAN VETERAN !!! That must hurt eh ?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #43 on:** September 19, 2002, 03:51:08 PM »

Ski, you've served in a war? (not during)

Just curious, cuz unless you have you don't qualify as a veteran...

or is that combat veteran? Hell, I dunno.. all that's confusing...
-SW

Cobra · « **Reply #44 on:** September 19, 2002, 03:51:27 PM »

Ok Rip, since you "agree 100%" with Sandman's statement that Military service should be required without exception.....Did you, yourself, serve in the Military?

That should be easy to answer without the "I'm not here to defend my blah, blah, blah," crap

Cobra