Author Topic: Images from Finland-Russia map  (Read 1945 times)

Offline kanttori

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Images from Finland-Russia map
« on: September 19, 2002, 12:11:25 PM »
Hello!

Here is link to my Leijonat Squad netsites. There you can see screenshots and information from my new Finland-Russia map:

http://www.savanne.org/ah/finrusmap.html

I hope it is coming to Combat Theater soon. Actually I wait the new Terrain Editor version. After that our skin-team can make original skins to all Finnish, Russian and German planes!

If you want check the FinRusxx.res file, please contact me! :cool:

Kanttori
Warrant Officer
Leijonat Squad
Suomi - Finland
ismo@kesalesket.net
Lentorykmentti 3 - Finnish Aces High Virtual Flight Regiment

Offline Sabre

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Images from Finland-Russia map
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2002, 12:30:30 PM »
Looking very nice!  Can't wait to use it in the CT.  Besides the Bf109, what other aircraft that we have available in the AH did Finnland use, and what info do you have on service dates with Finnish forces?  I know they used the Baffalo, and the Hurricane also if I recall correctly.  What else?  I'm sure Brady's already got a set up in mind, of course.

Sabre
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Offline kanttori

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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2002, 12:56:36 PM »
Hello Sabre!

Here is M.O.T.D. from my Finnish-Russia map. From it you can find all the information you need (I'm sorry because of my English... :rolleyes: ):

FINLAND - RUSSIA CONTINUATION WAR

Welcome to a historical Eastern Front map of the Continuation War (1941-44) between Finland and Russia. The current year is 1944. Map scale is 1:4.

In this map Rooks are Finns, Bishops are Russians and Knights are Germans. They can use following historical airplanes:

ROOKS/FINLAND AIRPLANES:
* Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-2 and G-6 ("Mersu")
* Hurricane Mk I
* Curtiss P-40B (actually Curtiss H 75A Hawk "Sussu")
* FM2 Wildcat (actually Brewster Model 239 "Bylly Waltteri")
* Junkers Ju88A-4 ("Junnu")
* Douglas C-47A (actually Douglas DC-2 "Hanssin Jukka")

BISHOPS/RUSSIA AIRPLANES:
* Lavochin La-5FN ("Lavochka")
* Yak-9T ("Tankoviy") and 9U ("Uluchshenny")
* Hurricane Mk I and Mk II
* Curtiss P-40B and 40E
* P-51B Mustang
* Ilyushin Il-2 Type 3
* A-20G Havoc and Boston III
* Douglas C-47A (actually Li-2 under licence)

KNIGHTS/GERMANY AIRPLANES:
* Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-4 ("Emil") and F-4 ("Friedrich")
* Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-2 and G-6 ("Gustav")
* Messerschmitt Bf 110 C-4b and G-2
* Focke Wulf Fw 190A-5 and F-8
* Junkers Ju88A-4
* Douglas C-47A (actually Junkers Ju-52 "Tante-Ju")

SPECS:
* The current game type is Teams.
* Ammo is set at normal.
* Fuel Burn is set at normal.
* Down time is set at normal.
* Killshooter is off (be careful: don't shoot friendly pilots :-)
* Enemy icon range is short (3K).

RADAR SETTINGS:
In the Eastern Front area was very few radar only in the Finnish capitol  Helsinki, in Estonia/Germany and in Lappland/Germany. Mostly Finnish and Russian fields did not have radar. That's why I have made radar settings very low:
* Enemy Radar range is about 8 miles from airfields (like visual contact).
* Enemy Sector Counter range is 12 miles from fields (like hearing contact).

EXTRAORDINARY IN THIS MAP:
* All the airfields are historical. The little "Backwoods Airfields" don't have runaways and hangers. There are 8 fighters and 4 bombers (actually plane-dugouts) in every field and you must destroy them in enemy fields. They react like hangers but aren't so difficult to shoot down: They need about one 500 lb or 250 kg bomb to destroy.

* Small sand-airfields have 8 fighters and 4 bombers, too. You must destroy both them and hangers in enemy fields. After all planes and hangers are destroyed, enemy cannot fly from that field. All hangers and airplanes needs 500 lb or 250 kg bomb to destroy.

* In some fields there are camouflage net (like those on Vehicle Hanger) instead of normal hanger. They are plane hangers yet. Under the camouflage nets you can find couple of bombers and fighters. Destroy them.

* Be worth to shoot trucks, tents and fuel barrels in enemy fields, too! For ex. in trucks are fuel, ammo, troops or maybe even Vodka :-)

* When you are landing to "Backwoods Airfield" remember always stop on the little sand-grass area (VH-ground) in the centre of field, otherwise you are "ditched"!

* Typical landscape in Finland area is swamp. In this map they are light green flat areas here and there in forestes. They are very good place when you must make emergency landing... :-)

VERY SPECIAL:
* Finnish players fly always in Rook/Finland Team and other nationality players in Bishop/Russia Team, unless Host puts teams in different order (I think this is good system in Combat Theater, too! :D )

SOME HISTORICAL BACKGROUND:
* In Northern Finland (called Lappland), Norway and Estonia there were Germans (Knights), because Finland and Germany were allied in 1941 - 1944.

* Finnish politics was never nazi politics like in Germany during those days. Finland fought against Russia and that was the only reason to ally with Germany.

* The blue svastika sign on Finnish planes (for ex. Bf 109 G2) is an old symbol from Swedish Count VonRosen, who presented the first aeroplane to Finnish Air Forces (FAF) in 1918. As you can see, that was many years earlier than nazis affected in Germany.

* We had about 100 World War II aces in Finland. Our best pilots were Ilmari Juutilainen (96 victories) and Hans Wind (75 victories). They both flew mostly with Brewster Model 239 and Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighters.

CONCLUSION:
Special thanks to Camouflage (Lentolaivue 34), WMaker (Lentolaivue 34) and Mipoikel (Leijonat) for their expert help to make this map.

And very special thanks to Jihad for landscape textures and Squirrel from town texture. Pokie, Nuttz and BenDover for Terrain Editor General help.

All coastlines and town transitions are made by myself... :cool:
Lentorykmentti 3 - Finnish Aces High Virtual Flight Regiment

Offline Sabre

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Images from Finland-Russia map
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2002, 03:28:52 PM »
Thanks, Kanttori, and no need to apologize.  Your written English is very understandable.  The write up is very nice.  One question though: I don't recall America sending any P-51's to the USSR.  Did they actually have them and operate them against Finland?  You really need to make a winter version of this map as well...it would be stunning.  I've always admired Finland's courageous defense against the USSR.  The USA's alliance with Russia was a matter of expedience as well..."The enemy of my enemy is my ally."  Hope this map gets approved soon.  If I were setting this up, I'd make the Fins and Germans the same country (Rook, for example), but only enable the Finnish planes at historically Finnish bases.  Same with German planes.  Otherwise there's no way to keep people from shooting down an allied plane.  Thanks again for your hard work.

Sabre
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2002, 04:15:05 PM »
Very nice.

As a Finnish-American I must say I am glad to have the number of Finns in this hobby that we have.  Even though my ancestors were in the US by the time of the Winter War and Continuation War I take quite a bit of pride in the account Finland gave of itself.

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Offline kanttori

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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2002, 04:23:30 PM »
Finnish pilots have seen and even shot down couple of Mustangs in our front. P51B's were equipped with Allison motors, not Merlin.

I think our history experts WMaker and Camo from Lentolaivue 34 can tell more of Mustangs in Finnish front. They both have helped me very much with historical details.

(For ex. i had very big problems to find historical Russian airfields in Kola Penninsula (North Russia). I didn't find anything from internet or library and I thought all the info is in Kreml! Then WMaker gave me a good book (Luftwaffe's North Front), and look: there was Russian airfield map!:D )

Our WW2 pilots have shot down couple of Spitfire V's, too, but Spitfire's were not very many in this area. That's why we didn't set them to available planes.

In my map you can find the "Murmansk Railway", too. CCCP used that railway to send the material to south from Murmansk port. I think one good scenario idea is to destroy the trains and airfields near "Murmansk Railway" with Germany jabos/bombers. They never did it 60 years ago, but now they can try it again...;)

It is good idea to put Germany and Finland to same side, I have tought about it myself, too! Estonia and Lappland fields must have then Germany planes (and Finnish fields still needs Brewster Model 239... :cool: )

Winter and autumn versions are under work. Mipoikel (Leijonat Squad CO) is working with textures and tons of snow!

When we see this map in Combat Theater, all Finnish AH-pilots from Leijonat, Lentolaivue 34 and Vaasan Vaakalentajat Squads CHALLENGE the rest of the world to fight against us! And trust me: we Finns NEVER fly with Red Star planes...:D :D :D
« Last Edit: September 19, 2002, 04:31:04 PM by kanttori »
Lentorykmentti 3 - Finnish Aces High Virtual Flight Regiment

Offline Sabre

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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2002, 04:47:09 PM »
LOL...It's a deal, Kantorri! By the way, the P-51B is Merlin powered, unless I'm mistaken.  It was the Mustang A-36, a ground-attack version, that had the Allison engine.  The British got a shipment of them, but found them less than impressive...until someone got the idea to put a Merlin engine in them.  The ones shot down by Finnish pilots may have been some of those A-36's, as I seem to recall now that Britain may have sent some to VVS as lend-lease.

Can't wait to see winter version.

Sabre
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Offline Slash27

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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2002, 06:25:56 PM »
This sounds very cool Kanttori. I will be looking forward to it. Can anyone suggest any websites or books on the Finnish involvement in the war? I know next to nothing about it and would like to know more.

Offline brady

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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2002, 04:53:43 AM »
This is a very Beautiful map, and the set up will I am shure be a very popular one indead, If any of you get a chance pop into H2H and check it out.

Offline oboe

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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2002, 07:34:06 AM »
Beautiful map.

Really need the "Sky Pearl" when this baby is released!   I'm a little surprised to see the FM-2 subbing for the Brewster.  Was the B-239 that hot an airplane?   I don't doubt the B-239 could fly rings around the F2A, but if it was a match for the FM-2.  No wonder the Russians had so much trouble with it!   Certainly the B-239 didn't have the FM-2's ruggedness, though.   Did it even have self-sealing tanks and armor?

BTW, the P-51A was Allison-powered; maybe those were sent to Russia on Lend-Lease?

I don't believe the RAF used the A-36.   I think they used a variant of the Allison-powered P-51A.    And they did make use of it, unlike the P-39's brief time with the RAF...  
« Last Edit: September 20, 2002, 07:44:53 AM by oboe »

Offline brady

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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2002, 08:15:02 AM »
Some creative license must be taken on ocashion to flesh out our plane set's for the ct, we all know this, and I think that the planes he has chosen for this map and the time frame are representave enough to warnet inclushion in this set up. I hope that HTC get's us that new terain editor asap so we can have some fun on this new map and try somthing truley different from our standard fair:)

Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2002, 02:32:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by oboe

I'm a little surprised to see the FM-2 subbing for the Brewster.  Was the B-239 that hot an airplane?   I don't doubt the B-239 could fly rings around the F2A, but if it was a match for the FM-2.  No wonder the Russians had so much trouble with it!   Certainly the B-239 didn't have the FM-2's ruggedness, though.   Did it even have self-sealing tanks and armor?


The Finnish Brewsters didn't have self sealing fuel tanks. That said, the BW wasn't very prone to catching fire even if the fuel tanks were hit. The Finns added pilot armor to the seats.

In AH, the F4F-4 is closer than FM2 to the performance of a fully loaded Finnish BW.  

The F4F-4 is about 15mph faster than BW on the deck, 20mph faster at altitude.  The AH FM2 is about 30mph faster than the BW.

Climb rates of the AH F4F-4 and the BW are almost identical, but the BW climbs a bit better around 5kft altitude. The AH FM2 climbs much better at all altitudes.

The Finnish Brewsters were equipped with 3 heavy and 1 light MG initially, but by early 1943 all BWs had been equipped with 4 heavy 12.7mm (.50cal) machine guns.

Camo
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Offline kanttori

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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2002, 01:44:40 PM »
Thanks Camo for information!

You and WMaker are the best "Historical Aeroplane Engineers" who I know!:D

But I think the best way to solve the Brewster Model 239 BIG  PROBLEM in our new Eastern Front terrain is very simply:

HTC: GIVE THE BW TO US WITH FINNISH SIGNS! :rolleyes:
Lentorykmentti 3 - Finnish Aces High Virtual Flight Regiment

Offline julle

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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2002, 03:20:33 PM »
OUTSTANDING FELLAS! :eek:

I will use my 2 week trial in this one, TY!, , WTG!

Please give a hint/call if/when this TOD is about to go on...

julle, CO Überfinns Perkele! (AH-squad of finn WB-players)

Offline Jasz

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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2002, 06:21:08 AM »
Quote
OUTSTANDING FELLAS!  

I will use my 2 week trial in this one, TY!, , WTG!

Please give a hint/call if/when this TOD is about to go on...


S!
Same here. Map looks great kanttori :D :D :D

Jasz