Author Topic: P47, P51, P38...the German view...... (Read 14280 times)

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #135 on:** September 25, 2002, 05:44:19 AM »

Why u show me ur gay friend glasses?

anyway ur german is very bad

Glasses · « **Reply #136 on:** September 25, 2002, 06:03:38 AM »

But Bug that's you

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #137 on:** September 25, 2002, 06:13:48 AM »

The photo is very funny

but....
can't be me
coz i look very sexy like all p38 pilots are

adolph jungen · « **Reply #138 on:** September 25, 2002, 07:48:30 AM »

Glasses meinen jungen!! Es ist sehr gut to see the old "spirit" alive in this day and age. You would have made Hummler und Herr Gerbels sehr glucklich!

I've left a message for you here. Ppress [PLAY] on that page for the secret message from me and the Party,

Click here for my message

und

Heil!

Glasses · « **Reply #139 on:** September 25, 2002, 09:37:03 AM »

LOL!!!

Anyhow Hazed it's true the Germans were not saints like I said in the other thread of "numbers the german view" but to think they were evil or they were demonic considering some of the things the "good, benevolent" allies did is really revisionist garbage.

I don't shed a tear for any of the Allies or Germans that died in WW2 but I do admire the sacrifices each individual made during that time and the accomplishments even though one at times they were fighting an uphill battle. It's just sickenig to see the allied fanatics white washing the facts when even when they commited attrocities aswell, justifying them and excusing them, it's the same as denying or excusing the holocaust . The difference of course is that one side won and the other lost thus the victors can make any history they wish to put up,even though that might not be the truth.

Again lack of counter argument just prompts insults heheh, the same as yelling a racial slur for the lack of a counter thought.
Thanks for proving me right again

Bombjack · « **Reply #140 on:** September 25, 2002, 10:21:55 AM »

Actually Glasses, a major difference is that one side was in the right and one side was in the wrong. I wonder if you appreciate that fact?

Glasses · « **Reply #141 on:** September 25, 2002, 06:55:04 PM »

This will be my last post, since this thread is starting to feel like trying to reach the ceiling with my piss line. Bombjack, when you have two little kids fighting and along comes the teacher and says; What's going on? how did it happen?

-He Started it. Replies one kid
-NO!!! He did!!!. Says the other.

As you see, behind each side of a struggle, there is a perfectly a just reason as to their actions. No side ever declares they are evil, or innately bastardous. While living in a post WWII won by the allies, their views and justification of their actions seem benevolent, and almost legendary heroic. The villian (because each coin has two sides, especially in the rudimentary way of thinking good-evil) has senseless reasons, those which are unimaginable to understand by the brave conquering side of good.

What does all this apparent mumbo-jumbo mean? That we have already labeled each side of the WWII, and since it seems impossible to have two good forces fighting eachother, the losing side, by the default, is the evil one. Now the second point, regarding the 'senseless' reasons of the 'evil' side, translated into WWII means that it is socially impossible for us now to understand the reasons of the Nazi Germany in WWII. Not only because it was a reason of national pride which included cultural and racial unity (not rascim) which is a reason pretty insignificant in a country made up of Multiculturalism and mixture such as the US (not saying it is bad).

Another reason was the humilliation Germany suffered as result of the sanctions given by the allies after WWI, which led to trigger that intense sense of national unity and restoration, when in fact it was not Germany the one responsible for that previous war. During it's economical depression, most of the industries were not led by Germans, the German people were slowly being pushed away from their own affairs. Nowdays, we couldn't possibly understand how national pride could go above the restrains that could prevent a war, but back in those days national pride was trait to be admired and honored.

hazed- · « **Reply #142 on:** September 25, 2002, 07:41:43 PM »

er glassess you DO believe Hitler was one of the lowest forms of humanity and most evil dictators of the 20th century though right?

Whilst i see where you are coming from in terms of your 'average' german during the war who quite understandibly did not see themselves as 'evil' but in fact fought for their sense of National pride and unity they still eventually learned just how dispicable the nazi's were and can not possibly think that the attrocities etc were fabricated! you often argue about 'actual figures' in other posts when to be honest the figures are irrelevent to the actual 'acts'.for instance (re other post) if it was 100 prisoners in the great escape shot/executed or just 1 the act has still been purpetrated.

'No side ever declares they are evil, or innately bastardous' you say but er they did start victimizing/murdering jews and other minorities from the very beginning, invaded poland, Holland, france etc. How Evil do you want it before its agreed to be so?

As to 'those days' they werent that long ago.My grandmother is alive and well and she lived through WW2 and was educated in a similar way.During the war she heard rumours of attrocities as a housewife in Britain so I think Germans were also 'aware'.

We have the benefit of a high standard of education with which to interpret our governments actions and i can accept a certain amount of ignorence due to poor understanding of what was going on and misinformation but wrong is wrong and you dont need education to understand beating and killing people, invading countries etc is wrong and lets be frank here thats possibly the nicest description of what they did ever written!

I must say you do often make some fair comments and its good to be reminded that even we, the allies , were no angels, I do think sometimes,however, that what you post can be easily missinterpreted and thought of as having a zeal for the country of that time.I've flown with you in a squadron for over a year and i never got the sense you were that way inclined but sometimes i read your posts and wince at whats written, and worry how the hell someone who doesnt know you would interpret it.careful mate.You even have me worried.

Charon · « **Reply #143 on:** September 25, 2002, 07:49:57 PM »

Quote

This will be my last post, since this thread is starting to feel like trying to reach the ceiling with my piss line. Bombjack, when you have two little kids fighting and along comes the teacher and says; What's going on? how did it happen?

-He Started it. Replies one kid
-NO!!! He did!!!. Says the other.

As you see, behind each side of a struggle, there is a perfectly a just reason as to their actions. No side ever declares they are evil, or innately bastardous. While living in a post WWII won by the allies, their views and justification of their actions seem benevolent, and almost legendary heroic. The villian (because each coin has two sides, especially in the rudimentary way of thinking good-evil) has senseless reasons, those which are unimaginable to understand by the brave conquering side of good.

What does all this apparent mumbo-jumbo mean? That we have already labeled each side of the WWII, and since it seems impossible to have two good forces fighting eachother, the losing side, by the default, is the evil one. Now the second point, regarding the 'senseless' reasons of the 'evil' side, translated into WWII means that it is socially impossible for us now to understand the reasons of the Nazi Germany in WWII. Not only because it was a reason of national pride which included cultural and racial unity (not rascim) which is a reason pretty insignificant in a country made up of Multiculturalism and mixture such as the US (not saying it is bad).

Another reason was the humilliation Germany suffered as result of the sanctions given by the allies after WWI, which led to trigger that intense sense of national unity and restoration, when in fact it was not Germany the one responsible for that previous war. During it's economical depression, most of the industries were not led by Germans, the German people were slowly being pushed away from their own affairs. Nowdays, we couldn't possibly understand how national pride could go above the restrains that could prevent a war, but back in those days national pride was trait to be admired and honored.

Glasses

I have yet to see a bigger pile of revisionist BS. This is an education for us all Glasses. Not only are you factually inaccurate, but downright offensive. I suppose a Nazi victory would have been an acceptable end to the war from your perspective, perhaps even preferable, since both positions were so equally good and all.

My first ignore list member

~~Charon~~

worr · « **Reply #144 on:** September 25, 2002, 09:49:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hazed-
well isnt that the whole point?

No.

There are two points and you combined them.

Worr, out

worr · « **Reply #145 on:** September 25, 2002, 09:55:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
as for your numbers as to a2a kills those on unverifiable estimates based on pilot claims and hardly credible.

Hehe...Wotan.

The claims are easy to confirm. And since the war has been over for more then 50 years the numbers are being confirmed....and the margin of error still leaves you with the same impression.

Then again, if a statistic doesn't go your way...then damn them all!

Worr, out

worr · « **Reply #146 on:** September 25, 2002, 10:02:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Naudet
What i just wanted to point out is that the 1st two P38 groups were not effectivly facing odds of 4:1 to 20:1.

I read back from this quote...and couldn't find where you substantiated it.

The P-38s were attacked. Galland himself admitted that they prefered to attack the 38s. Goering gave the order to the LW to ignore the fighters...but this order came in 44.

BTW...there was only 1 38 group through to December....and most of the 38s were on the ground due to engine problems.

Worr, out

worr · « **Reply #147 on:** September 25, 2002, 10:08:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Glasses
What does all this apparent mumbo-jumbo mean? That we have already labeled each side of the WWII, and since it seems impossible to have two good forces fighting eachother, the losing side, by the default, is the evil one.

Hehe...that's just too much.

Worr, out

funkedup · « **Reply #148 on:** September 25, 2002, 11:19:12 PM »

I think Glasses is just trolling.

Minotaur · « **Reply #149 on:** September 26, 2002, 10:41:28 AM »

Quote

There was a case of Bf109 deliberatly ramming a P51, cutting the P51 in half and the 109 survining the colision.

LOL

Uncle Uncle !