Author Topic: Fw 190 A5 vs Spit V (Read 3073 times)

bigUC · « **on:** September 25, 2002, 10:39:29 AM »

Something is not quite right here. Spit V in AH has no problem diving, zooming or accelerating with a FW 190. The only way a fw 190 can escape is trough a prolonged dive (several tousand feet).

Especially zoom troubles me - spit V's outzoom 190's (A5) with ease, going from zoom to climb and hanging on the propeller for an eternity.

I have not made any tests (except 50+ encounters in AH). Is 190 acceleration and e-bleed off? Or is the Spit 5 porked? Does anyone have the know-how to test this?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #1 on:** September 25, 2002, 10:51:02 AM »

SpitV's ailerons get stiff in dives, roll left, pull out a little, roll right, pull out a little, dive back down.

Leave him in the dust, but going in a near vertical dive will only leave him above you. You MUST dive away at an angle, this goes for any plane.

As for the zoom... initial speed, alt, angles, and how far away you extend in the zoom will determine whether you are doing it wrong, or if the 190 is broke.
-SW

bigUC · « **Reply #2 on:** September 25, 2002, 11:00:02 AM »

Thanks for the reply, but i'm not asking how to escape a spit. I'm asking why the spit V is as fast as a FW 190 a5 in a dive, accellerating with it from the first few feets. It's historically uncorrect.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #3 on:** September 25, 2002, 11:05:10 AM »

It isn't, initial speed of both planes is a big factor. Lag is a big factor. Distance between the two planes when the dive began is a big factor.

Besides, if you are going by pilot anecdotes, that won't help you get any semblence of historical accuracy.

Data and tests will.
-SW

bigUC · « **Reply #4 on:** September 25, 2002, 11:12:25 AM »

thanks again, but thats why i'm asking for data and tests..

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #5 on:** September 25, 2002, 11:13:44 AM »

I see, I missed that sentence... carry on.

-SW

bigUC · « **Reply #6 on:** September 25, 2002, 11:19:16 AM »

np, I just want a FW thread that does not end up in a LW bashing or a. Too many people here has obviously lost their girlfriends to Helmut Kohl.

Soulyss · « **Reply #7 on:** September 25, 2002, 11:19:44 AM »

From what I've read ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL the 190 should outdive and out climb the SpitVb.

Here's a quote from "Focke Wulf: Fw190 In Combat" by Alfred Price. These are based on RAF tests done during the war from a captured 190A-3.

Against the SpitVb the RAF found that in regards to dive

"Comparative dives between the two aircraft have shown that the Fw 190 can leave the Spitfire with ease, particularly during the initial stages"

and climb

"The climb of the Fw 190 is superior to that of the Spitfire VB at all heights. The best speeds for climbing are approximately the same, but the angle of the FW 190 is considerable steeper. Under maximum continuous climbing conditions the climb of the Fw 190 is about 450 ft/min better up to 25,000 feet. With both aircraft flying at high cruising speed and then pulled into a climb, the superior climb of the Fw 190 is even more marked. When both aircraft are pulled into a climb from a dive, the Fw 190 draws away very rapidly and the pilot of the spitfire has no hope of catching it."

Ok that's all fine and good but that doesn't of course prove anything. There are a ton of factors that come into play that can explain behavior we see while fighting in AH. "Slower" planes catch "faster" planes all the time in AH because they have more E, etc. etc. etc. To get anything changed my guess is you'd need documented tests done in AH and then supporting historical data (ie hard numbers). Careful testing in AH might also prove that nothing is amiss at all of course.

I'm curious about any results testing would reveal.

bigUC · « **Reply #8 on:** September 25, 2002, 11:26:50 AM »

Well, that is what I suspected. I have read "historical" comparisons between Spit IX and FW a4 (Capt. Eric Brown) where the 190 has better acceleration, esp in a dive. I would suspect even bigger differences between Spit V and A5.

Does anyone know how to test initial dive and zoom acceleration/deceleration in AH?

HFMudd · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2002, 11:40:08 AM »

The 190A-5 does out climb the Spit V in AH with comparative ease. Do the climb with a slight left turn to defeat the Hiszooka and to get the Spit turning against engine torque for best effect.

Not really sure about the dive though. I know I have used a dive to the deck to extend from Spits quite often before beginning the climb. I also have been surprised by Spits catching up with me while diving. I have assumed that they managed to unload for the dive while I did not. (I've also had Leviathn absolutly blow past me in a Spit V while I was going flat out in a Yak-9U. The man is a master.)

What I can say is that in the CT, where the opposition has been restricted to Spit V's from time to time, I don't fear the Spit V when in a 190A-5 because I always feel I can manage to run away when/if I loose the initiative.

Wilbus · « **Reply #10 on:** September 25, 2002, 01:52:16 PM »

Will have to do some testing on it. However, as for flying online, the spitfire, even if slower (say dive, pulling away, go level, pull up and zoom) have no trouble what so ever following a 190 A5.

The test data Soulyss posted was made between a Spitfire Mk V and a Fw 190 A3. the A5 was even a bit faster then the A3.

Will have to do some real testing of it in AH.

As for angles in climb, there is hardly any difference between any planes in AH.

Read a story by an RAF pilot, he said that the Spitfire Mk 1, above 25k had a very high angle of attack just to stay level, basicly flying as if it was climbing although it was only going level.

He was shot down at 30k once while flying level, can't remeber if the attack came from 12 oc or 6 oc though, the story is (I believe) in JG26 Diary.

Point of story, no plane, not even spit and hurri 1's have high angle of attack while flying level at 30k, in AH that is. Another story in real life.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #11 on:** September 25, 2002, 02:12:23 PM »

Fighters, attack and bombers are not enough categories here, we need a new one for spits and simlilars: choppers.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #12 on:** September 25, 2002, 02:42:11 PM »

The FW190A5 seems to dive away from Spitfire V well enough in my experience but the zoom climb is not quite as effortless like in that British wartime test.

Wotan · « **Reply #13 on:** September 25, 2002, 02:56:06 PM »

all spits seem to zoom better then what I have read. The spit 9 dives with any plane in the game. The spit 5 in my experience doesnt dive nearly as well as the 9 (same airframe right?) but it will surprise you.

As for zoom climbs, Spray and prop hanging make any kinda of zoom with a plane that has similiar e a gamble. They will stall out before you but they can ping you out to 1.2k.

So if a guy is close and you dont have a clear superior e state expect to take hits in your zoom.

I usually dont zoom unless I have a 1k advantage and better e.

You can zoom to the left but even then expect a rain shower of bullets as the guy hangs on his prop. Or get a wingman. Its great hanging the types out to dry for a wingy.

fd ski · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2002, 03:07:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Soulyss

and climb

"The climb of the Fw 190 is superior to that of the Spitfire VB at all heights. The best speeds for climbing are approximately the same, but the angle of the FW 190 is considerable steeper. Under maximum continuous climbing conditions the climb of the Fw 190 is about 450 ft/min better up to 25,000 feet.

450 ft/min is not a LARGE adventage by any streach of imagination. That's 150 METERS. Let's do this:
Spitfire is 50 yards behind the 190, they both climb for a MINUTE, now 190 is 200 meters away. Is this a huge adventage ? Minute later and still WELL WITHING THE GUN RANGE.

Superior climb is about 1500ft/min over the other plane. 450ft is dimes and nickels.