Author Topic: AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5 Tests  (Read 4146 times)

Offline Wilbus

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5 Tests
« on: September 28, 2002, 11:11:49 AM »
Did some tests, climb from 0-10k. Acceleration from 200-300mph at 10,3k. Zoom after 5k dive test.

Still have zoom after level flight and dive acceleration test do to, trying to figure out a good way to do the dive test good.

All tests were made without WEP, as the RAF test report as done on "maximum continuous climbing conditions". Meaning without WEP.

The acceleration test was  also done without WEP.

RAF test report was made with a captured 190 A3. The A5 had a stronger engine.

RAF test report on Climb: "The climb of the Fw 190 is superior that of the Spitfire Mk VB at all heights. The bets speeds for the climbing are approximately the same, but the angle of the Fw 190 is considerably steeper. Under maximum contineus climbing continuous climbing conditions the climb of the Fw 190 is about 450 ft/min better up to 25,000 feet. With both aircraft flying at high cruising speed and pulling up into a lcimb, the superior climb of the Fw 190 is even more marked. When both aircraft are pulled into a climb from a dive, the Fw 190 draws away very rapidly and the pilot of the Spitfire has no hope of catching it.


My tests were all done with 50% fuel in both planes.

0-10k without WEP.

Spitfire Mk V time to 10k. 3 Minutes and 5 seconds. The Spitfire started climbing faster and faster then higher up it got. However, the climb didn't increase all that much as stayed at about 3.3k/min during the whole test up to 10k.

The Fw 190 time to 10k. 3 minutes 15 seconds. At 5k the first decrease in the engine became noticable, decreasing the climb with about 200 feet/min. At 6.5 to 7k the next engine decrease came, this one was much more apparent, decreasing the climb with about 500 feet/min.

From 6.5k and up, the spitfire have no problem outclimbing a 190 A5 in AH.

Level acceleration at 10,3k.
Time from 200mph to 300mph.

Spitfire Mk V: 46 seconds.

Fw 190 A5: 52 seconds.

Dive from 10k flying in 300mph followed by a 90 degree zoom from 5k

Both planes had reached a speed of about 470mph at the time of the zoom. More tests will be made when it comes to dive acceleration.

Spitfire Mk V reached an altitude of 11,5k before stalling out.

The Fw 190 reached an altitude of 11,8k before stalling out.

More test will be done when it comes to diveing acceleration and normal (not a 90 degree zoom) climb after high speed dive.

Test will also be made between the 190 A5 and the Spitfire Mk IX.

An intersting factor in the report, is that several times, it's pointed out that the Fw 190 has better acceleration both over the Spitfire Mk V and the Spitfire Mk IX.

Short about the acceleration vs Spitfire Mk IX: "When both aircraft were flying at high cruising speed and were pulled up into a climb from level flight, the Fw 190 had a slight advantage in the initial stages of the  climb due to its better acceleration. The superiority was slightly increased when both aircraft were pulled up into the climb from the dive."

Also, before that is written the report states that there was little difference between climb rate overall, the Spitfire Mk IX was slightly better up to 22,000 feet. Above 22,000 feet the Spitfire MK IX climb rate increased and it was superior to the Fw 190.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2002, 12:39:05 PM by Wilbus »
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Dawvgrid

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2002, 02:10:43 PM »
Nice reading Wilbus.What source,,Alfred Price?.

Offline Wilbus

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2002, 03:42:37 PM »
Ahaa, yes, forgot that.

It is Alfred Price yes, the test report found in the book "Focke Wulf FW 190 in Combat".
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Nashwan

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2002, 06:58:58 PM »
Quote
RAF test report was made with a captured 190 A3. The A5 had a stronger engine.

The RAF were running the A3 beyond accepted German boost limits.

The RAF tested the 190A3 at 1.42 ata for speed runs, and 1.35 ata for climbs.

The AH 190 A5 shows 1.47 ata at wep, 1.30 ata at max normal throttle.

The RAF tested the Spit V at 12lbs boost max, and noted that since those tests it had been re rated to allow 16lbs boost max. They don't say what boost was used for climbs.

AH shows the Spit V at 14lbs boost max continuous, 16lbs boost at wep.

I don't know if the AH boost gauges are accurate (I know the Spit IX one isn't, showing 18lbs boost but giving 15lbs performance).

Offline Wilbus

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2002, 07:34:15 PM »
AFAIK I know the planes were run on their max contineus power, the A3 wasn't overboosted. The tests made with 1.42 boost were only done in level flight speed, not in climb or zoom.

In the climb and zoom aswell as dive the test was made with 1.35 ata. That was the maximum contineus power (military power) and could be maintained a long time. That was how my tests were made aswell.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

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Offline niklas

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2002, 03:49:08 AM »
what always wondered my was the climb rate number of the captured A3:
3050 ft/min @ 4000ft
3280ft/min @ 17500ft

Why is climbrate higher in high altitude? 4000ft, this is usually the 1st gear which offers more power than the 2nd

Itīs also remakable that the AH fw190 starts at IAS 450 wild shaking, while the old light spit dives smoothly at those speeds. 750km/h ias was a factory guarantee speed, not the absolute dive limit where problems occured imo.

niklas

Offline niklas

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2002, 04:46:02 AM »
hmm small correction , shaking seems to be  a function of mach number rather than ias - my fault sry

niklas

Offline Wilbus

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2002, 05:36:21 AM »
RAF tested that same A3 to 580mph True airspeed at 16,000 feet. They described the controls as "...at this speed the controls, although slightly heavier, are still remarkably light. One good feuture is that no alteration of trim from level flight is requiered either during the entry or during the pull-out."

Ok, already there you can see the AH 190 is quite wrong.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

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Offline bigUC

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2002, 06:26:03 AM »
Thanks Wilbus!
Kurt is winking at U!

Offline Wilbus

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2002, 09:40:46 AM »
Pleasure :)

Now I know something isn't quite right.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline RRAM

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2002, 11:28:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus

Now I know something isn't quite right.



Now?. I pointed some of those problems (the most notable one ,the trim issue) already 2 years ago.

2 years later we're still discussing it.

(not to mention the  Fw190A5 SL speed, wich is wrong as I already posted 1 year ago...and so on).


Is good to see someone is still fighting for the Fw190 to have its historic performance, Wilbus.  I already stopped trying a long time ago.

Offline Wilbus

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2002, 12:38:12 PM »
What I mean with that comment Ram is that I know something is wrong with the climb rate and zoom/acceleration. Never really tested it.

As for the Trim thing I've been fighting about it since I started flying 190's a long time ago!

Yeah, we still discuss it, which is really sad as nothing has happaned, nor will happen I think. Will keep trying, both for the 190's and for the Ta152.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Karnak

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2002, 05:08:42 PM »
So, is the Spitfire that accelerates too quickly or the Fw190 that doesn't accelerate fast enough?

I'm hoping the Fw190 should accelerate faster.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2002, 05:12:06 PM »
Considering the AH Fw190A5 is some 20mph too slow at SL it would make sense it's not accelerating fast enough.

Offline Karnak

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AH Spitfire Mk V vs AH 190 A5
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2002, 05:22:29 PM »
GRUNHERZ,

That 20mph too slow thing was demonstrated to be false.  The Fw190A-5 is doing fine at sea level.
Petals floating by,
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