Author Topic: I am trying to decide how to control my planes in the future.  (Read 916 times)

Offline john9001

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I am trying to decide how to control my planes in the future.
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2002, 02:26:12 PM »
been using a MS sidewinder 3d pro twisty stick so long i can't remember when i got it, it's got optical sensors so no pots to go bad, never had any problems with it except some play from wear when stick is centered.

44MAG

Offline 214thCavalier

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I am trying to decide how to control my planes in the future.
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2002, 02:47:38 PM »
Cougar spring tension is easy enough to weaken if you feel the need, I did as the control near centre was not precise enough for my liking.
Pots can and will spike same as any other joystick, take em apart and increase tension on the contacts.
Cougar world has a huge thread on mods for the gimbals etc to reduce slop and another thread has started offering a mod to change from pots to Hall sensors for the X and Y axes.
That i am gonna get asap.
User support for mods to the cougar is very good although you could argue for the money it should have these features anyway :)
Takes a while to set the reponse up to perfection, (for me anyway) and since i last posted on that subject i have changed it all again.
Good stick would not want to change it, but for the first month it was a close call :)

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2002, 03:17:39 PM »
$300 for a joystick .. not me

at my calculations I can be in X45's for 7.5 years for $300 and that is replacing it every 12 months with a brand new

and as much as you want to imagine otherwise - your $300 jstick is a still just a toy - just an expensive toy :)

going from a ms twisty stick to an X45 is a huge increase in performance & fun - best bang for the buck. Get it and the USB peds for less than the cougar

that is unless you have XP - then all bets are off until Saitek gets a working software package for it :)
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Offline airspro

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I am trying to decide how to control my planes in the future.
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2002, 03:29:35 PM »
Quote
Or should I simply keep my old MSFF


Yes , add a USB CH Pro throttle and a USB CH Pro Pedals and you'll be happy . You'll have your hotas and the stick that you are so used to and still happy with .

I sent my Cougar back , didn't like the way the center works , the way one spring hands off to the other spring etc .

It felt damn nice though .
My current Ace's High handle is spro

Offline Sixpence

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I am trying to decide how to control my planes in the future.
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2002, 03:45:55 PM »
Let me get this straight, you have to buy pedals for a $300.00 joystick? Does the stick twist if you don't have pedals? And what are pots?,and where are they located? I have a logitech digital 3D extreme. It has 4 buttons in reach of my thumb and two on the base near the throttle. I have had it for awhile and have had no problems, but I would like to clean it to keep up on it. I like it better than the precision pro because it is built alot better, it is quite heavy. I was thinking of getting a joystick with 2 hat switches and more buttons to program(never seem to have enough buttons:) ). The saitek x45 looks like a cheap alternative to the cougar. I would rather go with the cougar, but let's face it, $300.00 is a steep price.Does either stick twist if you don't have rudder pedals? It appears to me the guys who came up with the cougar and set the price do not have wives:(
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Offline lord dolf vader

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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2002, 03:57:05 PM »
the x45 has a rudder on the throttle it is under the handgrip where you use your fingers to actuate it.  i hated it at first but like it now. i have never used rudder peddles Twisty and then x36/x45.


you can use it with regular ones also.

Offline BigGun

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« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2002, 04:14:35 PM »
I have x45...use to have some twisty thing. I didn't much much care for the rudder control on the x45...got some CH pro peds, Wow, what a difference.

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2002, 04:49:00 PM »
Do the pedals make that big a difference? What do they do that the twist doesn't?
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Charon

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« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2002, 05:07:26 PM »
I have the full CH USB setup (combat stick, pro throttle, pro pedals) and I'm very happy with it. All a matter of taste really.

Charon

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2002, 06:24:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Do the pedals make that big a difference? What do they do that the twist doesn't?


Imagine trying to drive/race your car with the clutch and throttle built into the steering wheel,... doable, but less precise than on the floor.  3 axis is just a bit too much for one hand to do all jobs  very well.

eskimo

Offline LoneStarBuckeye

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I am trying to decide how to control my planes in the future.
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2002, 06:41:42 PM »
I have both Cougar and a CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals set up.  Both set ups cost about the same, once you buy pedals for the Cougar.  The Cougar is an impressive piece of equipment and it looks good on my shelf, but I use the CH stuff.

The following is purely my personal view, and I know that many (who are much better virtual pilots than me) disagree.  That said, here is my take on the Cougar:

Pros
1.  The all-metal look and feel is first rate, and the Cougar appears to be a high-fidelity copy of the real F16's control stick.
2.  The switches are solid and the increased throw of the primary hat switch allows more accuracy when selecting views.
3.  Its programmability is incredible.  You can make it do (almost) whatever you can imagine.
4.  The resolution of the pots is excellent, although their precision is offset to some extent by the joystick's play about its center and the stiffness of the springs (see below).
5.  The throttle has two rotary axes that you can program to issue keypresses or program to an analog control.  They would be ideal to control trim in AH, if it had the ability to map analog axes to the trim controls.

Cons
1.  The default spring tension is far too strong (for my liking), and attempting to lessen the tension by bending or replacing the springs (with F22 springs, available from Thrustmaster via their web site for about $10) yielded a very "sloppy" center with a "mushy" feel.
2.  There is entirely too much x and y axis play in the stick.  I would say that each of my Cougars (I have had two, because I had to send the first back after the view hat switch went bad after about a month) had as much or more axis play than an old X36 stick that I have used for about a year.  I have tried the non-exotic mods described on Cougar's world, to no perceivable effect.
3.  Because the spring tension is so strong in both the x and y directions, it feels like there is a detent when the stick is centered.  There is not, of course, but attempting small, precise movements away from center was difficult (for me).  Attempting to transition the stick smoothly along a diagonal through the center point was particularly difficult.
4.  The Cougar Control panel allows you great flexibility in setting up axis response curves, deadbands, etc. for all of the Cougar's axes.  Using any but the default linear settings yielded erratic results in AH, however.  There is at least one thread about setting up the Cougar's axes in the AH forums, so if you go this route, I suggest you dig it up.
5.  Cougar allows you to plug in a "standard" set of analog rudder pedals (e.g., TM Elite Pedals, CH Pedals, or CH Pro Pedals (gameport, not USB)).  If you do so, the Cougar will recognize the rudder axis but not the toe brake axes (in the case of CH Pro Pedals, for instance).  You can rewire the Pro Pedals to make them work (I have done this), but it is a nuisance.  If you only want to use you Cougar for AH, just get a set of CH Pro Pedals USB, because AH (unlike some other games like Mechwarrior IV, etc.) has no trouble with multiple control devices.
6.  After using the CH setup, I miss the extra buttons and hat switches on the CH Pro Throttle that are not on the Cougar throttle.  Because AH does not allow analog trim axes, I don't miss Cougar's analog rotaries.

I hope that is useful.

- JNOV

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2002, 10:38:05 PM »
Let me ask this, I have a twist joystick for rudder. If I buy a set of pedals,will they work? And can I disable the twist?
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline lasse

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« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2002, 02:11:31 AM »
Thx for all replys, still not shure what to do......

I do use Win XP pro, but if I understand it right, that is a good thing when you use Cougar , right ?

I see lots of people talk about CH pedals, are these better than TM Elite pedals, personally I think the TM set looks better(cooler), but I know looks aint all.

I am leaning towards the Cougar investment, but it is a hard choice.

Lasse
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Offline Kirin

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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2002, 03:53:09 AM »
Yup - XP & Saitek --> uh oh! - XP & Cougar --> SWEET!

About the rudders: Had CH Pro rudders for quite some time - they were old, ok - but spikey as hell and for some reason not able to calibrate in Windoze. Along with the Cougar I got TM Elite rudders. The feet spacing is wider (good!) but they felt quite hard, wasn't able to do fluid movements. Now I used a bit of lubrication and the wear off from extensive use made it perfect. Very smooth, precise control!
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Offline Charge

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« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2002, 05:35:11 AM »
I recommend loosening the Cougar's springs before the center horizontal steel axle wears off too much of the surrounding soft metal.

The springs  require only a small amount of bending to give a looser touch to stick. You also must remember to bend the spring ends a bit upwards so that they touch the support pins in right angles. If you don't conserve the right angles you'll have a very mid-sloppy stick... ;)

-Charge+
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