Uranium wasn't Uranium.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Thrawn


Got any references for that?

Just a cursory glance gives me John Pike of the Federation of American Scientists with a  report on the use of Airpower in the war who states:

A much televised testament to the war's destruction concerns the "death's highway" route of an Iraqi armored column on the road to Basra late in the conflict. Reports indicate that individual Iraqis panicked at the rate of their destruction and actually blasted other Iraqi vehicles in an attempt to clear an escape route.(19) The peak rate of destruction of Iraqi armored vehicles during Operation Desert Storm was over 500 vehicles per day

(paper can be found online at: http://fas.org/spp/aircraft/part08.htm )

I have never actually seen anything that denies large numbers of Iraqi combatants involved in the action.

-Sikboy

[Sikboy]

here's an interview with a bloodthirsty American who has overcome his bloodlust long enough to talk to PBS's frontline.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/oral/horner/5.html

-Sikboy

[Thrawn]

"The Iraqi troops were not being driven out of Kuwait by U.S. troops as the Bush administration maintains. They were not retreating in order to regroup and fight again. In fact, they were withdrawing, they were going home, responding to orders issued by Baghdad, announcing that it was complying with Resolution 660 and leaving Kuwait. At 5:35 p.m. (Eastern standard Time) Baghdad radio announced that Iraq's Foreign Minister had accepted the Soviet cease-fire proposal and had issued the order for all Iraqi troops to withdraw to postions held before August 2, 1990 in compliance with UN Resolution 660. President Bush responded immediately from the White House saying (through spokesman Marlin Fitzwater) that "there was no evidence to suggest the Iraqi army is withdrawing. In fact, Iraqi units are continuing to fight. . . We continue to prosecute the war." On the next day, February 26, 1991, Saddam Hussein announced on Baghdad radio that Iraqi troops had, indeed, begun to withdraw from Kuwait and that the withdrawal would be complete that day. Again, Bush reacted, calling Hussein's announcement "an outrage" and "a cruel hoax."

Eyewitness Kuwaitis attest that the withdrawal began the afternoon of February 26, 1991 and Baghdad radio announced at 2:00 AM (local time) that morning that the government had ordered all troops to withdraw. "

[Sikboy]

The Cruel Hoax line was from Feb. 15th, not the 26th. and the US Army was attacked by Iraqi units as recently as the 25th. Telling information from dissinformation is a lot easier 10 years later.

[edit]
wierd site btw
http://deoxy.org/deoxyf.htm
[/edit]

-Sikboy

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Sikboy
The Cruel Hoax line was from Feb. 15th, not the 26th. and the US Army was attacked by Iraqi units as recently as the 25th. Telling information from dissinformation is a lot easier 10 years later.


-Sikboy

Gotcha.

[miko2d]

Sickboy,
 I am not arguing that we did not have legal right to slaughter those poor bastards with impunity.
 I am arguing that we should not have done so for other reasons having to do with morality and the "righteous" image that we try to present to the rest of the world.
 We slaughter many more people than we have to and call ourselves "civilised" but than we complaing when someone does the same to us.

 Kuwait was a decisive victory for US forces. I greatly admire them for well-organised low-casualty operation. If the enemy casualties were 5,000 instead of 100,000 my admiration would not have been any less.

 miko

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by miko2d
 I am not arguing that we did not have legal right to slaughter those poor bastards with impunity.
 I am arguing that we should not have done so for other reasons having to do with morality and the "righteous" image that we try to present to the rest of the world.
 We slaughter many more people than we have to and call ourselves "civilised" but than we complaing when someone does the same to us.

Are you still drawing similarities between Sept. 11th and this? If so, then I believe that we are at an impass.

-Sikboy

[narsus]

So how many of you guys were actually there, or in combat at all...EVER. War sucks, people die, did the military know that people on the highway of death were "farmers" then.

Here's a new idea how about when someone slams planes into buildings we do well, nothing.

How about when some egomaniac dictator decides to invade another country we just sit back, it's their problem isn't it?

Let's just slap more sanctions on Iraq, Saddam looks like he hasn't had a nice large meal in about 2 hours.

I think we should let Iraq be Iraq and let them build up again and see what they could accomplish in the most globally variable piece of real estate on the planet. I could care less if the Gulf War was over oil, good for us (remember the retreating Iraq's set the wells ablaze.

Do you people think that if the US did a complete reversal in policy these people wouldn't come after us? if you do I'm sure Saddam would love to meet you.

Why the hell do you people even play AH? Go out buy the Sim's and have a ball.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by miko2d
 Kuwait was a decisive victory for US forces. I greatly admire them for well-organised low-casualty operation. If the enemy casualties were 5,000 instead of 100,000 my admiration would not have been any less.

How about if we split the difference?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/appendix/death.html

-Sikboy

[Thrawn]

Bush seeks support for "U.S. Does Whatever It Wants Plan

UNITED NATIONS--In an address before the U.N. General Assembly Monday, President Bush called upon the international community to support his "U.S. Does Whatever It Wants" plan, which would permit the U.S. to take any action it wishes anywhere in the world at any time."

"As a shining beacon of freedom and democracy, America has inspired the world," said Bush in his 25-minute address. "With its military might, it has kept the peace and bravely defended the unalienable [sic] rights of millions around the globe. In this spirit, I call upon the world's nations to support my proposal to give America unrestricted carte blanche to remove whatever leaders, plunder whatever resources, and impose whatever policies it deems necessary or expedient."

http://www.theonion.com/onion3836/bush_seeks_un_support.html

[midnight Target]

narsus,

Are you saying that we should never question the government?

Are you suggesting that America is about "what GWB says"?

Have you forgotten what it is we are, and why people like Bin Laden go nutso about us?

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by midnight Target


Have you forgotten what it is we are, and why people like Bin Laden go nutso about us?

I love you guys



-Sikboy

[john9001]

can't believe the liberals are still crying about killing too many enemy in the gulf war, i guess it's ok to kill some  but not too many.

instead of condeming saddam who started the damm war , the liberals condem the USA for "wining too big"

if the 500,000 'farmboys' didn't want to go to war , why didn't they go to bagdad and over throw saddam?

before the gulf war Iraq had the 4th largest army in the world and saddam promised us the "mother of all battles" , so how would you attack the 4th largest army in the world? like LBJ with a little poke here and a little poke there. (viet nam)

i notice you liberals say nothing about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqs that surrenderd and were treated well and sent back to Iraq after the war.

[miko2d]

I am not a liberal. I am a libertarian - a right wing conservative except the religious crap and legislating the morality.

 I am not worried about killing too many enemies. I am worried about killing people who are not our enemies. We claim now that we want to free iraqis from Hussein - the same iraqis that we slaughtered when they were running away from Kuwait.

 I am also worried about trying to be friends with people we should be killing. OBL was not a good choice. Saudi Arabia is not a good choice. Kuwaiti dictatorship is not a good choice - we have nothing in common with them.

 Why do we care if Iraq grabbed Kuwait?


 And about that "we had to kill them because they could have posed danger" - pure crap.
 We expected them to be danger and went to protect property rights of some kuwaiti princes.
 After we smashed the iraqi army and saw clearly that it did not pose any danger - we suddenly got scared of a bunch of a peasants running away and decided to slaughter them just in case...

i notice you liberals say nothing about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqs that surrenderd and were treated well and sent back to Iraq after the war.
 What's to say? Isn't that how prosoners of war are supposed to be treated, especially those who had no choice whether to enroll?

if the 500,000 'farmboys' didn't want to go to war , why didn't they go to bagdad and over throw saddam?
 Yeah, blame the victims... How dare they to be opressed!
 May be they needed a little help - like US army hitting Hussein and his oppression machine instead of slaughtering the serfs.
 The french intervention made US independence possible. Why do you expect more from iraqis?

 miko

[Toad]

Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
I still remember an A-10 pilot being interviewed at the time, joyfully describing Basra as a 'Turkey Shoot'. I swear he was talking with a smile on his face. He was positively triumphant, like he'd achieved a great victory. I thought he was the biggest salamander to grace the airwaves (after David Mellor).

And I actually flew a 4-day trip with a man that was #2 in the second flight of A-10's to arrive at the highway.

He was smiling too and saying it was a "Turkey Shoot". The difference is in THIS little detail: He said that the Iraquis had abandoned almost all of the vehicles after the first flight had killed the lead and trailing vehicles. He said you could see them running across the desert away from the highway and the vehicles. He said there was essentially no return fire because no one was in or around the vehicles. He said it was like being at the range, only with lots more targets.

Excuse me if I believe him rather than your version of a broadcast "highlight" interview.

Have any details on how many Iraqi soldiers actually died in that incident? No? Why am I not suprised. Lots of dead VEHICLES in those photos though.