Wep and cooling.......

[hazed-]

Im a little bit confused by a test i did on the lengh of wep vs its time for cooling.

i did 2 simple tests.First i took off in the 190d9 and applied wep.timed it, then when it overheated i timed how long it took before it was back to normal tempreture.

the reason i did this is because i always find it seems to take forever for 190s to cool down.

well i got 10 minutes of wep and then it took 18 minutes to cool again.

I then did the same for the P51D as it is a contemporary and got 5 minutes of wep and it took 9 minutes to cool down.

what is a little strange is that the tempreture for an overheat was the same.

so I was confused. It seems the cooling rate was the same for however much wep is used right?

but doesnt this negate the whole 190 extra boost? I thought it was more nitrous oxide that afforded it the extra wep and therefor cooling from the use of it should be roughly the same plus whatever the poor cooling system would cause (was the cooling on the doras inline engine bad?)

now im not sure here so im asking is this right and if so how are these times worked out?

if you look at the times i found: ie for 10 mins wep it takes 18 mins to cool and for 5 minutes it takes 9 minutes doesnt this mean both machines have the same amount of nitrous oxide? only the dora uses it all in 1 go but the p51 uses it in 2 bursts?

or is the system we have not calculated on nitrous at all?

if the cooling rate is the same then does this mean the 190d9 gets 2x hotter than the p51d and therefore takes 2x longer to cool?

seems a bit odd to me. do we have the water methonol cooling on the doras? the GM1?  if not then what do we have?
The only thing the dora has really is 'longer' wep not 'more' at all?.is it only usefull in prolonged chases?.

[Wilbus]

All the Dora has in longer WEP. No MW50 or GM1. MW50 and GM1 would show up as BIG boosts on the charts.

Ta152 difference between military and WEP (MW50) is shown on the chart. However, somebody forgot to add the so crucial GM1 boost to the Ta152.

So all the Dora has, is normal but longer WEP.

[whels]

Originally posted by Wilbus
All the Dora has in longer WEP. No MW50 or GM1. MW50 and GM1 would show up as BIG boosts on the charts.

Ta152 difference between military and WEP (MW50) is shown on the chart. However, somebody forgot to add the so crucial GM1 boost to the Ta152.

So all the Dora has, is normal but longer WEP.

all planes in AH that have wep available have between
5 and 10 mins . LW planes are only 1s with 10mins wep.

AH wep is do so that, it takes 2x longer to cool down then
the wep length available. IE: P51, 5 mins wep/10 mins cool down,
D9, 10 mins wep/20 mins cool down.

basicly in AH wep is right now just added boost pressure, id like to see HT add the little water/MW/GM tanks to planes so that planes that had the special wep can have it. BUT with the addded tanks, once u run out, u have no more of it till u land and
rearm/replane, no unlimited supply  of special wep like we got now.  and also tie the special  wep to fuel multiplier so u get the correct usaged time(supply amount not time length) vs fuel used


whels

[Wilbus]

In my Ta152 thread a while ago Pyro came in and said the Ta152 does have MW50, it can be seen by the very big increase on the charts. It doesn't have GM1 as it should though.

[hazed-]

I think you two are missing the point here. essentially its another area where , if HTC modeled it like the real planes, the LW planes would have a big advantage but due to the fact its modelled the way it is the MW50/GM1 etc is effectively negated completely.

if its been set the way it is now to allow us all to enjoy wep a bit more, but not have to worry about having the true supplies etc can you answer this:

now instead of having 5 minutes of boost which cools in say 10 mins and LW 190s having 10 minutes boost which cools in 10 mins we have for some inexplicable reason have to wait 20 minutes?
isnt the extra length of boost supposed to represent the greater amount of nitrous etc the 190s had?
ie the allies had less and so should get less time?

as it stands now they have an equal amount just in 2 stage instead of 1.

I would think that if AH had the boost systems modeled correctly the 190s would have a huge advantage in situations like chasing down p51s or escaping etc.

handy that it isnt isnt it.
 

[dtango]

Hazed- the 190's do have an advantage- 10 min WEP vs. 5 min WEP.  Let's take the 190 vs. the P-51 If you boosted both planes at the same time the 190 would have 5 more min of WEP vs. the P-51.  Doesn't this reflect the greater amount of nitrous?

Something that could make a difference as well - So.. say if a P-51 uses WEP for 1 minute only, does it only take it 2 min to cool so that you have full 5 min WEP capability again?  I haven't tested this.  Curious if anyone else has.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[hazed-]

exactly thats what im not sure about

is how it works?:


190d9 and p51 use wep for 1 minute:

in 2 minutes the p51 is cool in 4 minutes the dora is cool.

or would the dora cool in 2 minutes also?


my point is the dora and the p51d both have wep(representing nitrous boost/GM1/turbo etc).HISTORICALLY the dora had more or longer capability and once used, it was used up until it was resupplied right?

so in a real situation the dora would have 2xthe boost/wep/whatever?

well my question is how is this represented if the p51d and dora are in this situation:

dora takes off and uses 10 minutes of boost to climb.
p51d takes off and uses 5 minutes of boost to climb

dora waits 18mins for total cooling making a total of 28 mins
P51 waits 9 mins and then re-applies boost for another 5 minutes then waits 9 mins for total cooling

result? both have used 28 minutes of maximum climb.the dora has gained absolutely no advantage whatsoever.

admittedly in a fight the 10 minutes constant wep is advantageous but by the time the dora runs out of wep the p51d is over half way to full cooling again(4 mins left)whereas the dora has still that 18 minutes.do you see what i mean?

 Its an unlikely scenario for a chase or whatever to last that long but where is the overall advantage for the 190? seems to me the 190 should cool down in 10 minutes from maximum engine temp.
After all the gauge is the same temp.We could make it slightly longer if the 190d9 was indeed poor at cooling down historically, Id have no problem with that but should it really be 2x the length of time?


whels i totally agree with you on the use of an historical gm1 or nitrous level that runs out until a rearm.It would finally show the 190 has a great engine boost system rather than the present system that really overall shows very little advantage.Id also like to see what this would mean for the La7's! did they have a good supply? or indeed did they have nitrous at all? Id really like some info on the la7

[Furious]

admittedly in a fight the 10 minutes constant wep is advantageous but by the time the dora runs out of wep the p51d is over half way to full cooling again

the P51 should already be dead.


Just another bit of fun with the numbers:

P-51d has a 53 minute flight duration in the MA with 100% fuel.  That gives it 4 complete WEP durations and 3 full cool downs.

Fw190d9 has a 32 minute flight duration in the MA with 100% fuel.  That allows for 1 complete WEP cycle.

Of course it never actually works out like that, but thought I'd add it anyway.


F.

[dtango]

We should just probably go test it out.  I'll do that tonight- take up a Dora and the Pony and see how the cooling works.  I'll go WEP for 1 min and let them both cool for 2 minutes and then see how long I can WEP again until it runs out for both planes.

I do see what you mean about not having an advantage though I think the definition of advantage can start to get convoluted.

I'm pretty weak on understanding the detailed workings of aircraft powerplants so I'm looking to others to explain WEP and cooling etc.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[Karnak]

Hazed is right, it doesn't make sense.

If the engines both reach the same tempature, one would expect them to cool down at about the same rate regardless of how long it took to get them that hot.  E.g. they should both cool of in ~9 minutes.

[hazed-]

a word from HTC would be appreciated

[Naudet]

The WEP issue was discussed before in another from, but HTC never explained why they aren't capable of modelling historicaly correct WEP settings for all planes.

As Hazed gave the D9 as example, we could actually look at what the real one would be capable of with MW50.

It would have 115 liters W50 onboard, enough for a max of 40 mins MW50 usage.

MW50 could be used to a maximum of ten minutes. After that no form of WEP (D9 had 2 forms of WEP) was allowed for the next 5 mins. Than again WEP could be used.

Also the D9 had a second form of WEP that used increased boost pressure without anything else injected.
This setting could be used for 10 minutes, and there was no specified break when to reuse this WEP setting. I guess it had to be done by looking at the engine temperatur.

So it should be clear that the way HTC models WEP clearly penalizes the D9.
I think will be the same for all LW planes that use MW50.

[Wilbus]

CC Naudet, was same with all MW50 and GM1 planes. Not sure our D9 carries MW50 though, maybe it is.

[hazed-]

so again we point out a failing and its ignored? of course we are just whining

[hazed-]

punt ,

think ill just keep punting until we get some kind of explanaton.

funny theres no allied guys in this thread mouthing off about how wrong i am.