Author Topic: AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison  (Read 1552 times)

Offline Exile

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2000, 01:24:00 PM »
 
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Originally posted by MrLars:
Oh my gawd...Badz!
Can't wait for these articles but tell me, am I gonna have to suffer innumerable deaths from you here like I did in AW?
  <--lookin' up for Badz

Lars


Damn ... is this Badz? I too remember being on the wrong end of his guns way too many times in AW. Hope to cya up Badz.

Offline Badboy

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« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2000, 03:14:00 PM »
Hi Westy

 
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Originally posted by Westy:
Hot damn! I though your interest had waned or other things in life had grabbed ahold of you when I noticed your postingss about the FM and such had tapered off a couple of weeks ago. Nice to see I had no fear of that.  

Unfortunately the pressure of other flight sim' related work keeps me off the boards as much as I would like. I posted that message and then had to move my office again so I've  been offline for a few days and I'd just like to apologize for the disappearing act.

 
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I have to salute you Badboy for the way you write these up. I may not udnerstand all the fine details but your mastery in wording keeps me glued to the report(s). I'd be remiss not to mention again how much I liked your works when I saw them in AW prior to several of the scenarios there that allowed partipipants to get a better feel for how the aircraft of both sides could possibly match up against each other.

Thanks

 
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And I chuckle now remembering sitting next to RM at the AW 1999 CON and tryin to track you down in the FT arena because he thought you had some kind of a cheat that allowed you to disappear when he was close on your "6"  

I remember it well, it was a very fun weekend! I just wish I could have seen it from your perspective  .

Badboy
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Offline Badboy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2000, 03:16:00 PM »
Hi F4UDOA

 
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Originally posted by F4UDOA:
You tease. I have been waiting to see your work for sometime now. Any chance of getting a sneak peak of the F4U??

I can't give you a sneak peak of the F4U because I haven't done it yet, I was always going to wait for 1.04 but now its here it will be high on the list, I promise.

Badboy

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Offline Badboy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2000, 03:21:00 PM »
Hi Funked,

 
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Originally posted by funked:
Where on earth did you get an EM diagram for a real P-51?  Is that based on analysis or flight test data?

It is a combination of both flight test data and analysis, it has to be because you can't produce them directly from flight test data, it isn't possible. If you want to produce such a diagram for a real aircraft, what is surprising is that the test schedule doesn't even include banking the aircraft. When I produce the diagrams for a flight sim they are easy to check and validate with banked turns, and I assume many guys check my results quite closely in the same way.

Badboy
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Offline Badboy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2000, 03:26:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by SOB:
Badboy,

However, your post has me quite interested, particularly in the RL to game to game to game comparisons.  Thanks!  I look forward to your articles  

SOB

You are welcome, I'll try to make it interesting, and include only enough of the aerodynamics to keep any cynics happy  

Badboy

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Offline Badboy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2000, 03:29:00 PM »
Hi KampferAs,

 
Quote
Originally posted by LJK_KämpferAs:
Are you going to test the P51 for MSCFS1 or MSCFS2? cos the CFS1 a/c is way off, its about 2000lbs too light for starters, I have been through this in the past with CFS.

The EM diagram for the MSCFS1 P51 has been on my hard disk for a long time so I was going to use that, but if the next version is here before the article is done, I will use it instead, just to be fair.

Badboy

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Offline Badboy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2000, 03:32:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by MrLars:
Oh my gawd...Badz!
Can't wait for these articles but tell me, am I gonna have to suffer innumerable deaths from you here like I did in AW?
  <--lookin' up for Badz
Lars

I doubt that, I'm sure to be just another Dweeb for quite a long time. Getting to be good in a new sim' takes a big investment in stick time, and I can't log the hours right now. So perhaps this will be your chance to get even  

Badboy
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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2000, 03:34:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by gatt:
Hi Badboy,
I like very much your AirWarrior EM diagrams. But, isnt a waste of time to analize CFS's Pony? Wouldnt it be better to check the WarBirds one?

A good point, thanks for the idea, I'll consider it.

Badboy
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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2000, 03:40:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by niklas:
22.4 deg/sec means 16 seconds in a sustained turn for a full circle. You´re absolutly sure that a P51 turned so good (afaik that´s the circle time of a zero).
niklas

Don't forget, because that diagram is at sea level, with low fuel, it represents just about the best performance that the aircraft can achieve. As far as the altitude is concerned, I think a real pilot would need to be pretty desperate to fly on the edge of a stall at sea level, but that is where the turning performance is maximum! Certainly no real pilot would be crazy enough to do it as part of a test schedule, so validation is unlikely. However, move the test to 10,000ft with 75% fuel and the best sustained turn rate drops to around 16dps.  Higher and heavier and the figure drops even more, not to mention other factors that will reduce the performance even further, but I'll elaborate on that more in the article. However, that's probably why any anecdotal evidence you may have is even more conservative.

 
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Btw i think also that sustained turns with more G-load should be possible.

Then that should help you resolve your adverse impression of the quoted values because a higher maximum sustained g will always result in a higher maximum sustained turn rate. Also the turn rates quoted are the result of what I believe are quite modest sustained load factors.

Badboy

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« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2000, 03:53:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by jmccaul:
Could someone explain how to read the diagram, especially with respect to
e-retension.

Regarding e-retention, check the diagram below. I've included the curves of specific excess power (Ps). They indicate the rate of energy gain or energy loss in ft/s. You will notice that if you pull 6g in the old Aces High P-51 you would have bled energy at around 225ft/s that's the same as losing speed at the rate of ten knots every second. The 1.04 P-51 is better but I haven't quantified it yet.

I normally leave the other Ps curves off for clarity, and just show the Ps=0 curve because that gives you your sustained values. You only need to remember, flying above that line costs energy and the farther above it you go, the more rapidly the energy will be lost. Conversely, flying below the line allows you to accelerate, or climb while turning. Notice the Ps curve marked 20. That indicates that if you turn at about 1.5g, you can climb at the rate of 20ft/s or accelerate at a little less than two knots per second. Because I normally only show the Ps=0 curve, you just need to remember, the aircraft with the higher Ps=0 curve will sustain energy in the turns better than one with a lower Ps=0 curve.

 

 
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P.S. any chance of an online comparison in the future AH, WB, FA2, WW2online(when released). (also B17-2 and il-2 would be intresting when released of course)

Hehehe, that's a tall order, I'd probably have to give up sleep, to get it all done before folk stopped playing the sim's  

Badboy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2000, 03:57:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Vladd:
Always appreciated the work you did for AW and ELO Badz. If you and Andy ever write the AH Strategy Guide, you got a pre-order right here  
Vladd

Yep, I miss "Enemy Lock On" shame it went tits up. Andy and I would like nothing better than to do a book for Aces High, but unfortunately we have not yet found a way to do it that makes financial sense.

Badboy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2000, 03:59:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Exile:
Damn ... is this Badz? I too remember being on the wrong end of his guns way too many times in AW. Hope to cya up Badz.

Yep, it's me, but you don't have to worry, so far I'm just another easy target   But I'm improving fast  

Badboy

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Offline Badboy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2000, 04:06:00 PM »
Hi Viking

 
Quote
Originally posted by Viking:
Hey Badboy!
Good to see you've found Aces High and that you're still involved in the sim world. I've got myself involved with ThrustMaster, but still doing freelance work also. Do you still fly under the old handle?
B]

Yep, I've found Aces High, and enjoying it very much. I've never really been away from the sim' world, I've just been in lurk mode for a while   I thought Thrustmaster no longer existed? Recently I've been flying as either Badz or Badboy.

Badboy
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Offline jmccaul

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2000, 05:53:00 PM »
Thanks for the explanations  


Offline Westy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2000, 11:31:00 AM »
Big ole size 14 shoe PUNT!!

 Wouldn't this be an opportune time for an article such as this?  

   -Westy