Author Topic: AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison  (Read 1331 times)

Offline Badboy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« on: September 06, 2000, 04:27:00 PM »
I have just started work on an article that may have some bearing on recent threads regarding the fidelity of the Aces High flight model. Attracted to Aces High by what is clearly superior flight dynamics modeling, I began an analysis of the individual aircraft.  It was soon apparent that while most of the aircraft match the real world numbers in some respects, there are significant discrepancies in others. That of course brings me in conflict with my normal policy when writing about almost any flight simulation, that is to highlight those points that are good, while ignoring those that aren't. That policy has always served me well, because I generally preach to the converted, and almost never write reviews! Not to mention that highlighting weaknesses in some ones favorite flight sim' almost never goes down well.

However, in this case I can make an exception for two very good reasons. Firstly and most importantly, I'm not going to be telling anyone anything they didn't already know, I'll merely be quantifying a few issues. Secondly, those issues are known and scheduled for remedial action, so to be fair, I can publish the article after the adjustments in the flight model data have been made and duly accounted for in my analysis. So what will the article be about?

In a nutshell, aircraft performance comparisons for dissimilar air combat, one of my favorite topics. During the coming months I intend to give some attention to the aircraft of Aces High and provide some comparisons of many of the more interesting match ups. However, I'm just a tad excited about my next article because I'm doing a couple of things I haven't done before. Normally, I restrict my comparisons to aircraft within the simulation, simply because that's what the folk who fly competitively within it need. Hard accurate information about how the performance of one aircraft compares with another, presented in the form of energy maneuverability diagram overlays. However, the new twist to this is that now I can also compare the simulated aircraft with their real world counterparts, and taking that to its logical conclusion, comparing one simulation with another.

So, to be more specific, my next article will compare four different P-51Ds, the real P-51D, and those from Aces High, Air Warrior, and MCFS. I'll include a description of the issues related to the data used to drive the flight models, along with any factors related to the models themselves, and an insight into some of the detective work involved in the analysis of the real world aircraft. But of course, all this, only after the next version of Aces High, with any flight model adjustments.

Meanwhile here is a taste of what lies ahead. Here is an EM diagram overlay for the real world P-51D, shown in blue, and the P-51D as currently modeled in Aces High, shown in red. Notice that the real P-51D could sustain a maximum of 3.5g, and could sustain its best turn at just a little over 3g giving 22.4 degrees per second (dps) and a 600ft turn radius. In comparison, the current Aces High P-51D has a best-sustained turn of 13.6dps at just over 2g and 1080ft radius, a significant disparity. It appears as though Top speeds are as close to the mark as we could hope for. However, the low Ps = 0 curve for the Aces High P-51 indicates poor energy retention in the turns and reduced sustained turning ability, with respect to its real world counterpart. That is why the article will remain in abeyance until after the next patch, and also of course, because I don't want to analyze too many of the Aces High aircraft while changes are imminent.

 

That may all sound rather negative… On the contrary, Aces High has impressed me with its flight model, there appears to be some minor glitches in the data being used, but as those are corrected, as I understand they will be, what we have now is destined to evolve into the best online flight sim' available...  I'm sure it is going to be a pleasure to write about it!!  

Badboy
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Offline BigBen

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2000, 04:55:00 PM »
Sounds fantastoc... can't wait to see the final effort!

Offline snafu

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2000, 05:04:00 PM »
Can't wait

Offline Westy

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2000, 05:11:00 PM »
 Hot damn! I though your interest had waned or other things in life had grabbed ahold of you when I noticed your postingss about the FM and such had tapered off a couple of weeks ago. Nice to see I had no fear of that.  
 I have to salute you Badboy for the way you write these up. I may not udnerstand all the fine details but your mastery in wording keeps me glued to the report(s).
 I'd be remiss not to mention again how much I liked your works when I saw them in AW prior to several of the scenarios there that allowed partipipants to get a better feel for how the aircraft of both sides could possibly match up against each other.

 And I chuckle now remembering sitting next to RM at the AW 1999 CON and tryin to track you down in the FT arena because he thought you had some kind of a cheat that allowed you to disappear when he was close on your "6"  

 I look forward to reading your analysis very much!

 <S>

   -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 09-06-2000).]

Offline Hangtime

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2000, 05:18:00 PM »
HOLY MOLY!

I'm more than impressed.. I'm awestruck! (and can't wait till the pony gets the sparkle back!)

Bless you, BB.. this article will be greatly anticipated.

Hang
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Offline Karnak

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2000, 05:23:00 PM »
Y'all know that the flight model is gonna get a major reworkin' in 'bout two weeks.  Might render yer nice analysis rather moot.

Badboy, ya might wanna consider waitin' 'till 1.04 is released 'fore ya start the research.

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Offline F4UDOA

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2000, 05:29:00 PM »
Badboy,

You tease. I have been waiting to see your work for sometime now. Any chance of getting a sneak peak of the F4U??

Anyway I have been laying off any further anaysis or critic of the AH FM until the next patch myself. I don't think it redefine ACM in the MA. But I do think it will help to enhance the difference between A/C flight envelopes and help to further define A/C characteristics. In other words make it harder for a P-47 to out turn a Mustang. And make it harder for a Mustang to sissor with a Zeke without overshooting.

Waiting anxiously
F4UDOA  

Offline SOB

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2000, 05:43:00 PM »
Badboy,

Normally, this kind of comparison and flight data stuff bores the ever-living sheet out of me, as I just like to fly and am happy to leave the numbers to Pyro and HT.  However, your post has me quite interested, particularly in the RL to game to game to game comparisons.  Thanks!  I look forward to your articles  


SOB
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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2000, 06:14:00 PM »
Where on earth did you get an EM diagram for a real P-51?  Is that based on analysis or flight test data?

Offline LJK_KämpferAs

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2000, 07:38:00 PM »
Are you going to test the P51 for MSCFS1 or MSCFS2? cos the CFS1 a/c is way off, its about 2000lbs too light for starters, I have been through this in the past with CFS.

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Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2000, 08:15:00 PM »
Hiya Badboy! <S>

Offline Pyro

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2000, 09:38:00 PM »
Very interesting stuff Badboy.  It will be insight(or cite for some)ful how our new changes will compare to the current model.  Your findings appear to be very similar to ours.  I look forward to seeing your tests on our next version as well as other games.



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Offline Yeager

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2000, 10:19:00 PM »
Does this quantify my doghouse observations about the 1.03 AH P-51D having anemic energy retention?

Yeager

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Offline Exile

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2000, 11:05:00 PM »
Damn .... this sounds interesting as hell. Can't wait for the articles to begin.

Offline Tac

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AH aircraft performance analysis & comparison
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2000, 11:11:00 PM »
Nice info!

Would you mind doing the P-38 next? I got a certain.. umm.. personal interest in it here