Author Topic: Rework the Mossie! (Read 652 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #15 on:** October 08, 2002, 07:22:32 PM »

DingHao,

I'm afraid you don't know much about Mosquitoes.

The Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II that we have in AH is the fastest Mosquito Fighter-Bomber of the war. The fact that it entered service in mid-1943 is irrelevant to that. There are later, faster Mosquito bombers and night fighters, but no faster fighter bomber. Further, the Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II made up roughly a third of the total Mosquito production. Just that one sub varient of the Mk VI totaled half of what all 35+ other marks totaled combined.

The vast majority of Mosquito stories out there involve the FB.Mk VI Series II. If guns are mentioned in the story all bomber and photo recon Mosquitoes can be eliminated and if bombs or rockets are mentioned too, then the night fighters can be eliminated.

In summary, no, they are not talking about a later Mosquito.

Another point, many times during WWII a Mosquito FB.VI outran a Bf109 or Fw190 at low level. Now I'm sure they weren't talking about Bf109G-10s / Bf109K-4s or Fw190D-9s but rather Bf109G-2s / Bf109G-6s and Fw190A-5s / Fw190A-8s. In AH the Mosquito will simply not outrun these aircraft.

Yet another point, the Mosquito was one of the most dtreamlined aircraft of WWII. The Mosquito's radiators were the most streamlined radiators of any aircraft in WWII (slightly edging the P-51 IIRC, though I may have them reversed) and like the P-51's radiators they actually produced thrust. Radiators are one of the biggest sources of drag on inline engined fighters. The two Merlin 25s that powered the Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II each produced 1,625hp. The Mosquito FB.VI was also optimized for low altitude work. Now, compare that to the P-38L. It is of similar weight with engines of similar power. It was not known as one of the most streamlined fighter, its radiators in particular being performing poorly in drag tests. It was optimized for high altitude work. Despite all of this, in AH it is faster at sealevel. The Mosquito very slightly edges it for a short while above about 3,000ft, but then the P-38 takes the lead again.

If the P-38 was faster, why did we want Mosquitoes for PR work instead? In reality the Mosquito PR aircraft not only outperformed the F-5 (PR version of the P-38), but also had five times the range.

Range, that brings up yet another issue with the AH Mosquito. In reality the Mosquito FB.Mk VI had a range of about 1,200 miles on internal fuel and 1,800 miles with drop tanks. In AH the Spitfire Mk IX has greater range than the Mosquito does.

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 09, 2002, 12:37:24 AM »

It seems even on the BBS the lightning is an easy target.

Rasker · « **Reply #17 on:** October 09, 2002, 01:37:26 AM »

I want the Mossie version with the 57mm (6 pounder) tank gun, used for busting German patrol boats and shipping

. Failing that, please import the B-25H with the same short caliber 75mm gun used in the early Sherman tanks

vorticon · « **Reply #18 on:** October 09, 2002, 09:35:57 AM »

vort use p38 and mossie for jaboing and removing annoying panzers and osties

BenDover · « **Reply #19 on:** October 09, 2002, 12:20:55 PM »

vort, don't talk in the 3rd person, it makes you look like a moron

vorticon · « **Reply #20 on:** October 09, 2002, 01:30:56 PM »

vort say

little late for that would you not say mr bendover

would mr bendover prefer vort speak 2nd person like so
me think bendover be very silly boy me think me go away now

BenDover · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2002, 01:51:47 PM »

The only thing i find more moronic than speaking in the 3rd person, is the 2nd person

DingHao2 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 09, 2002, 05:18:56 PM »

Karnak, I was referring to the bomber versions.

All the information I have states that the FB Mk VI topped out at 380 mph. I believe that you also agreed about this in an earlier thread about the Me-410.

Karnak · « **Reply #23 on:** October 09, 2002, 05:41:59 PM »

DingHao,

Yes, it topped out at 380mph at 13,000ft.

That doesn't say anything about the low altitude speeds that we are talking about in this thread though.

The Mosquito B.Mk XVI topped out at 416mph and the Mosquito NF.Mk XXX topped out at ~420mph (though I have seen some sources say 430mph, I'm skeptical of that speed).

MiloMorai · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2002, 08:04:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
DingHao,

I'm afraid you don't know much about Mosquitoes.

The Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II that we have in AH is the fastest Mosquito Fighter-Bomber of the war. The fact that it entered service in mid-1943 is irrelevant to that. There are later, faster Mosquito bombers and night fighters, but no faster fighter bomber. Further, the Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II made up roughly a third of the total Mosquito production. Just that one sub varient of the Mk VI totaled half of what all 35+ other marks totaled combined.

The only Mossie that had "Series II" in its designation was the Mosquito B IV. This was to differentiate between the short nacelles (10 PR I and 10 B IV a/c) and extended nacelles (on all versions).

Ah, is it 1/3 or 1/2 of all production?

It was the only Mossie FB if one does not include the FB XVIII "Tse-Tse" (27 a/c), so it would have to be the fastest fighter bomber..

hazed- · « **Reply #25 on:** October 09, 2002, 09:11:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate

Let the rest of the world poke fun at us, it's just a way for them to deal with thier jealousy.

The final part of that sig is cut out anyways, it ends with a cruise missile strike on the offending smartass lighthouse operator.

funny thing is , knowing how trigger happy the yanks are thats probably true

Karnak · « **Reply #26 on:** October 10, 2002, 01:53:53 AM »

MiloMorai,

It would seem you also don't know that much about the Mosquito.

The Series II version of the FB.Mk VI was powered by two Merlin 25 engines and could carry four 500lb bombs.

The Series I version of the FB.Mk VI was powered by two Merlin 21s or 23s and could carry two 500lb bombs under the wings and two 250lb bombs in the bomb bay.

Likewise the Series I and II of the B.Mk IV are used to differentiate engines and payloads.

The only Mosquito with shorter nacelles was the first prototype. There was tail buffeting from 240mph to 255mph that was caused by a stall occuring behind the engine nacelles. This was solved by lengthening the nacelles. No Mosquito with short nacelles ever entered RAF service.

Guppy · « **Reply #27 on:** October 10, 2002, 03:26:22 AM »

http://www.home.gil.com.au/~bfillery/mossie02.htm has some interesting data.

The Mosquito TR.33 (derivative of the FB.VI, Merlin 25s) is listed near the end as having an SL speed of 344 mph. The TR.33 apparently had multiple ejector exhausts, which gave a 12 mph speed boost--would all Merlin 25 FB.VIs have had them? (The FB.VI entry also shows the British full-length rocket rails imposing a speed penalty of around 10 mph when installed.)

As for the Mosquito outrunning 190s and 109s at low level, I'm equally puzzled by the German claim in the recent P47, P51, P38...the German view...... thread that the P-38 was also faster than Luftwaffe fighters down low. From the published figures, I don't see either the Mosquito or Lightning having an appreciable speed edge over an Fw 190A or methanol-equipped Me 109G on the deck.

(By the way, I've no problem with accepting that the PR Mosquito would outrange the smaller F-5, but five times the range? Which subvariants are we talking about, with what fuel load and mission profile?)

Bombjack · « **Reply #28 on:** October 10, 2002, 05:43:34 AM »

Please ignore the Warbirds related bits, but this thread has some primary source data on the Mossie that may be of interest.

Wilbus · « **Reply #29 on:** October 10, 2002, 05:53:57 AM »

Quote

It seems even on the BBS the lightning is an easy target.

If you find your self as an easy target while flying the P38 in AH you clearly do something wrong.