Author Topic: Panzer IVs paper armor. (Read 533 times)

jbroey3 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2002, 11:34:42 PM »

Urchin.. The Damage modeling here is subpar as far as I have noticed in comparison to the likes of Il2, and Warbirds.

The Paper damage not only seems to hold true for the ground war, but yet as well for the air to air aspect.

Aircraft in Aces High simply fall to pieces with a short and Very long ranged shot.

The Aces High damage model seems to be akin to Binary either On, or Off and no inbetween.

There is always the issue and aspect of Network lag, and the loss, or misguided direction of information at the split nanosecond that you "hit" the target on your display. This is something that will seemingly exist until the day that we are all on a oc3 lines direct to each other.

As far as the Damage modeling goes, yes I agree whole hartedly that this is a major weak point for Aces High.

For any descent amount of viability, take a look at Films of actual Air to air combat.. and Then the likes of Il2.

You will come to the conclusion that the "penetration" of amor/metal/plastic/fiberglass etc.. is less than high fidelity graphically/damage wise with aces high.

This is Not a Downplay on HTC either, simply an observation, and Quite honestly I would REALLY like to know what Hitech thinks of his damage model in a comparitive way to that of Il2.

I think That many here are very eager to make Aces High the best online sim out there, but thier voice is not the one creating the product that we play.

HTC I ask you to please tell us.. the players.. How you view your current system of Damage modeling, and not as a Flamefest, but rather a comparitive discussion of what you Like/Dislike with the current system that Il2 uses and if you see their way of simulating damage as something you would like to create eventually.

Witless · « **Reply #16 on:** October 17, 2002, 03:36:01 AM »

Hi,

I'm not sure if it was Pyro or HT that commented in another post that the gv damage model is the most complex model in Aces High. If I remember the gist, this was used as a possible explanation for the sometimes weird things that happen, although wouldn't explain why no hit sounds.

Cheers................Trikky

Tumor · « **Reply #17 on:** October 17, 2002, 03:58:25 AM »

Trying to say this in a nice way. Aces High aint no tank (ground) sim. Consitency with respect to GV damage is little to none... I'm not suprised by anything that happens between any GV's anymore.

Gixer · « **Reply #18 on:** October 17, 2002, 04:03:04 AM »

Why I stopped bothering with GV's about 3 tours ago. I don't get to spend alot of time online (well not as much as I would like) as it is and HT can bring out as many new tanks,SP Guns,armoured cars etc as they like. But imho, untill the damage modeling is more realistic I won't be taking anything out of the hangar.

...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers

XIII · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2002, 05:22:57 AM »

Ripsnort · « **Reply #20 on:** October 17, 2002, 07:44:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan
Urchin the sad truth of the matter is that Fatty knows the right angle and place to get the best penetration that makes you squeel.

The mans a stud

ROTFLOL!

Urchin, the armour in tanks is a known shortcoming of AH. However, AH is a flight sim first, and priority will be given to the flight-sim-first side of the house. Think of GV's as something to do when your really bored.

Shane · « **Reply #21 on:** October 17, 2002, 07:52:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Think of GV's as something to do when your really bored.

so you're saying the pizza map is really boring?

Turbot · « **Reply #22 on:** October 17, 2002, 08:15:30 AM »

Armor was one thing Warbirds did right. I don't know the technical reasons behind it, only the end result. In Warbirds a tank is built like...well, a TANK

Whatever you think of Hotseat, he did actually go see the real tanks, measure the armor, then go to alot of trouble to get the ballistics "right".

I tried out aces high here and there since the very first Beta release. GV's have always been the very weakest part of Aces High. One early reviewer from one of the big game review pages tore em a new one over the GV's a year or so ago (you might still find it with a Google search) - they are a little better than they were - but still wierd.

But then Aces High is an airplane game after all, right?

Edit: I totally exploded a tank last night in one pass with some 20mm and 2 pops of 30mm. Not damaged, I mean completely blew him up.

blue308 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 17, 2002, 08:56:19 AM »

i always wonder how Osties survive direct 500lbs hits ( i mean i see the damn Ostie in the middle of my bob crater) and keep shooting at me, drive out and proceed with no damage. And sometimes all it takes to kill my ostie is a short burst from 109g10. This might sound like a whine for it mostly happens when im in an Ostie, but my Ostie never ever survived a bomb hit even if it was nearby, not even direct, and most of the times it wont make it if it gets hit by cannons.

Once i saw an ostie survive 6 direct hits of 75 AP panzer shells, and once again most of the time it takes 1 ping to kill me. The only explenation i can think of it that GV dmg modelling is somewhat random, for i never know whats gonna happen or how much will it take to kill one.

Elysian · « **Reply #24 on:** October 17, 2002, 10:54:46 AM »

I have to wonder if it is somethng to do with a bug in the field gun. We already know that field guns are bugged enough so that you can't see them firing at you. Maybe this "buggyness" is somehow related to how Urchin only heard the final shot that killed him?

Fatty · « **Reply #25 on:** October 17, 2002, 11:19:58 AM »

Another side of this a lot of people may not remember is back when only 50cals were defending the field, panzers could roll up onto the base and not only be untouched by any base defense, but also draw all of the ack on to the panzer with none shooting at attacking planes. Larger guns were added to the field defense to make sure attacking vehicles had to take out the guns before rolling on to the base.

If you're looking for panzers to be immune to field guns, I think you're in for a pretty long wait.

Of course, as urchin pointed out, killing the ack is just a silly idea.

keyapaha · « **Reply #26 on:** October 17, 2002, 12:04:02 PM »

What's weird to me is that I can roll to a field or city in a panzer and the AI ack will shoot at me as long as I dont move I wont die but if someone mans an field gun I am dead in just a few hits.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #27 on:** October 17, 2002, 12:14:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by keyapaha
What's weird to me is that I can roll to a field or city in a panzer and the AI ack will shoot at me as long as I dont move I wont die but if someone mans an field gun I am dead in just a few hits.

Mannable AA does not fire, unless it is manned, that and their 37mm. The others are 20mm and .50 cal (non-manable)

vorticon · « **Reply #28 on:** October 17, 2002, 12:21:09 PM »

i was under the impression that AP shots were NOT armour peircing so OF COURSE it will take more to take out the armour on a tank...as of the 37 flakpansie gun well i htink that that is a HE so it is armour peircing. if you must do tank to tank battle use the smoke shots to help with your aim and the HE shots t oremove that evil tank

Fariz · « **Reply #29 on:** October 17, 2002, 12:25:31 PM »

Panzer is not paper, just dammage model is very strange.

Sometime you need 1 shell to kill anything, and can get everyone from bad angles and at big distances. Sometime, you get em from rear, at dead close, with many hits, and still no kills. Once I used 20+ shells on a panzer, which turret and truck I got, and it refused to die. I specially moved around it, got close and got away, tried every single part on this panzer, and still no kill. I talked to this person, he heard all the hits, so it was not a network issue.

Seems to me it is some bug in panzer dammage model.

Fariz