Author Topic: Blast Radious, do HE shels from ground Vehicals have a blast radious? (Read 760 times)

Shane · « **Reply #15 on:** October 21, 2002, 10:58:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by brady
at 5 to 10 feat from a handgrenade i would expect to be dead, and since this is bigger I should think at least the same, mind you I am refering to parked planes.

the damage these projectiles do is part blast, and part shrapnel... individual peices of shrapel will be fairly small, but numerous, pieces of metal that will bounce off a plane, or go thru fabric covered surfaces... the same effect on a person standing that close is... most likely torn up badly, but not necessarily. plus the plane is sitting several feet off the ground. if you hit right *under* the plane you might do some damage, or if you actually *hit* the plane sure, but a 37 he going off several feet off a wing, will most likely just pepper the wing, probbaly not even damaging it very much, if at all. 37mm is just too small and a plane too big, relatively, for proximity damage to amount to much.

imho, of course. teh blast itself may lift and drop a wing a bit, or the tail, but the impact back down on ground will be less than that of a hard landing.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #16 on:** October 21, 2002, 11:27:23 PM »

LOL! OK...

Let's see...
A 37mm round traveling at over 1000 fps is somehow supposed to impact the ground with enough explosive force to damage a nearby aircraft?

And...
A 37mm HE round won't penetrate an aircraft if it hits it?

And...
a 37mm HE round is supposed to have anywhere near the explosive force of a hand grenade?

Man... keep digging.

Here's an idea. The 37mm HE round may not be powerfull enough to damage an aircraft that is over 5 feet or more away. And no ammount of hypothetical situations would change the fact that you simply have to hit the airplane with the round to do any damage.

AKDejaVu

Sachs · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2002, 11:58:30 PM »

Common sense says if it lands within 5 feet it would do damage due to its fragmentation Deja. Remember HE stands for High Explosive. Oh and Dominos pizza sucks ass. Sorry late night food run for us.

Voss · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2002, 01:09:17 AM »

I have used LVTa4's against aircraft at fields under attack, and yes you see a lot of them fall to pieces and ditch. You get credit for the damage you do (points) and you're keeping them from launching. If, you used AP instead and hit the plane in the cockpit, it should be an instant kill. Unless, of course, you hit the armor section which may help to save the pilot.

I have used HE from a panzer and wasted aircraft launching from a field. Close shots did not seem to have as great an effect unless the planes were moving. Direct hits often make the planes explode outright.

brady · « **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2002, 01:36:10 AM »

"Let's see...
A 37mm round traveling at over 1000 fps is somehow supposed to impact the ground with enough explosive force to damage a nearby aircraft?"

I have from the start refered only to HE rounds no mater how fast their going are suposed to impact and blow up and hurt stuf. And certainly do so withen shuch a short distance as say 10 feet.

"And...
A 37mm HE round won't penetrate an aircraft if it hits it? "

Well I imagine it would before it exploded, but certainly not very far, but then again this was never an issue, I am not shure what this referance is. As it realy has nothing to do with my main topic which is balst effect.

"And...
a 37mm HE round is supposed to have anywhere near the explosive force of a hand grenade?"

The 37mm round I am refering to initaly is aprox 3 pounds, I have a couple hand grenades they dont weight 3 pounds.

"Here's an idea. The 37mm HE round may not be powerfull enough to damage an aircraft that is over 5 feet or more away. And no ammount of hypothetical situations would change the fact that you simply have to hit the airplane with the round to do any damage."

The main drive behind me stating all this about blast radious and HE effect of ground fired guns like the LVT and the Panzer and the M8 is looking for a way to logicaly explane why they should or could be more powerfull aganst structures and soft targets, as I explaned above. I am not whining because it was to much trouble for me to actualy have to hit the planes , loard knows it was easy enought to do, I missed on pourpouse to test the therioury of the blast effect and found it wanting.

Shiva · « **Reply #20 on:** October 22, 2002, 08:51:38 AM »

Quote

I beleave the weights given are for the prodjectile, not the compleat round, their are vast diferences in prodtcile sizes withen a given caliber, take the 12.7mm Ho 103 and the 12.7mm US Browning MG's, or the 7.5cm Kwk40 l/48 and the 7.5cm KwK42 l/70, just two of many examples.

However, I find it hard to believe that an HE projectilel is going to weigh twice what a solid-slug AP projectile is for a gun of the same caliber, regardless of the difference in the manufacturers.

From http://www.peleliu.net/USWeapons/37mm.htm

U.S. 37mm Anti-tank Gun M3

Weight: 912 lbs.
Dimensions: Length: 10 ft. 10-1/2 in.; Height: 3 ft. 1-7/8 in.; Width: 5 ft., 3-1/2 in.
Range: 12,850 yds. max.; 500 yards anti-tank
Rate of Fire: Rds. per minute in bursts: 20; in prolonged fire: 5
Ammunition: Fixed HE, AP, APC and Cannister, M3 Tank-AT gun series only.
Projectile weight: 1.5 to 2 lbs.
Carriage: Type: 2-wheel split trail.
Traverse: 30 degrees right & left
Elevation: + 15 degrees, -10 degrees. Fires from wheels or axle pivoted firing segments.
Normal towing speed: 35 mph. max.

The above gun was mounted, with variations in recoil and trunnion hardware, in the M8 armored car, the M3 and M5 Light tanks, and the turret of the M3 Medium tank. All of these weapons fired the same ammunition.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #21 on:** October 22, 2002, 09:13:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sachs
Common sense says if it lands within 5 feet it would do damage due to its fragmentation Deja. Remember HE stands for High Explosive. Oh and Dominos pizza sucks ass. Sorry late night food run for us.

Common sense says that a round designed to explode on impact/penetration with an object would have to hit the object for the intended effect.

Common sense says that something detonating well away from an aircraft is going to have less of an effect than 30 cal fire would.

I mean.. you weren't refering to scratches in the paint as damage were you?

Think about the mass of the projectile, where the explosive force is concentrated and just how little of the projectile is going to impact the plane from that distance (even 5 feet).

Damn guys.. this isn't exactly rocket science.

AKDejaVu

Pongo · « **Reply #22 on:** October 22, 2002, 10:30:41 AM »

The blast effect from a 1 pound he projectile will be very neglagible especially in an open enviroment like a runway. If the 37mm dug in a little befor it exploded(almost certainly unless its on the cement) its fragmentation damage would be greatly hampered.
Also fragments decellerate very quickly. Their balistics are horrible and the fragments from a 37mm will be bb sized any way.
Unless the round contacted the airframe and exploded I wouldnt expect any crippling damage. It is possible but seems unlikly. Now something proximitly fuzed to explode very close to the airframe..that would probably be deadly but even 10 feet from a 37mm he round would severly limit the effectivness of the round.
I have seen grenade fragments bounce off a normal jacket at 20 feet.

brady · « **Reply #23 on:** October 22, 2002, 05:52:09 PM »

Shiva, your source seams at face value to be a bit more reliable than mine, howeaver I have another I am checking with in regard to this issue and I will know more tomarow, ty for your input.

The main thrust of this post seams to be lost in the detail's at present, I will revisit under a better heading at a later date:)