current setup... .

[Shane]

either add the 109f as it should be or replace p40e with p40b... the p40e is way outclassing LW stuff.

[brady]

The 109F is realy out the time frame I intended to represent, and the only counter to it firepower wise would be to add the Huricane IIC and that would be way outa the time frame I intended to represent. the P40E while brandishing that 6 pack of 50cal uberness is not realy unbalancing the planeset imo, it coiunters the C 202 which realy should not be hear either. The plane set is about balance firstly and history second, unfortunately we do not have a planest that is suficentaly developed to do a 100% historical plane match up for this time frame that would imo be ballanced, generaly speaking the Alies have a firepowere advantage over the Axis, but they ushaly do anyway(historicaly), 50 cal and hisppanos typicaly have twice the effective range as their Axis counterparts, and are very hard hitting. The Axis do have a preformance advantage in the 202 but only a slight one and they do have the 110, with two 20mm MGFF cannons*, bomber wise the Axis is also at an advantage. So as you can see each side has it's strengths and it weakness which seam to counter the other. I appricate your input but I have no intention of changing this weeks planeset, having spent time on each side, I can see no serious problems.


 *while the preformance of the MGFF could best be described as lackluster when compared with the late war cannons and the Hispano, the comparitevly large ammo load does tend to help make up for this in the 110.

 

[eddiek]

109E's roll rate is off (I believe this was discussed not long after it's intro to AH) and that allows either the Hurri 1 or the P40 to escape at will.
I flew the P-40's the last two days, had no problem killing my enemies in the 202's and 109's.
Switched sides tonight to try and even the sides........NOW I know why I was getting kills so easily.  109E is not gonna tangle with the P-40E for long, it just won't stay locked up with a P-40's 6 due to the roll rate being off.
Add the 109F please................

(If I, not being a LW/Axis fan, can tell the planeset is off, ANYONE should be able to.)

[Squire]

If you are being shot down while flying the 202 then stop using MA furball tactics and start flying it properly.

The 202 can completely dominate the P-40E.

I go into the CT and its guys doing the TB thing at 1000ft, then they gripe when they get tagged.

Stay high and fast, its not just a catchy phrase?

Cheerio.

[popeye]

Joined Axis last night to balance sides, and was very surprised by the performance of the 109e.  What a dog.

(BTW, there are some test reports that show much better roll performance for the P-40 than what we have in AH.)

[Eagler]

the 109e is a dog compared to the 109f but I think it holds its own one one one with the p40 and the hurri ... depending on pilot

key phrase here is: 1 on 1

[Yeager]

I hate to say it but the best thing about the CT for me is engaging in fights where less than a dozen people are involved.

Last night there were nearly 50 people online in the CT.  It really does start to draw shades of the MA and simple furballs with 30-40 people in the same sector (let alone over the same airfield).

Barring command organization channeling large forces, the CT simply turns into "mini-main" with anything larger than 30 players.

Why bring this up here in a thread about aircraft disparity and timeline error?  Because in the smaller environment of the CT, aircraft performance disparity can be, and should be, offset with the thing least required in MA furball combat - Thinking.

The CT should allow for disparity to the extent people are willing to take the challenge.  After that its just a mini-main anyway.

Have fun.

[Miska]

cc that.  And I also agree with warloc.  Don't fly for a fight, fly to get a job done (i.e. mission).  880 will be in the CT tonight, and if vf27 if there too, that should cut down on the furballing and introduce some interesting air action.

[HFMudd]

In my humble opinion the 109E's biggest problem is the 60rpg in those already questionable cannon.   A couple attempts at tracking shots and your RTB Ammo.

Once the wep is gone, the P40B actualy has a bit better performance that the P40E.  I'm not sure how the two center synchronized .50 compare vs. wing mounts though.

The 109E vs 109F is a whole different ball of goo though.  The 109E hits something like 280/290mph (non-wep/wep) and climbs at 2750/3000.

The 109F is 310/330mph and 3400/3900 fpm.  Even with the gondolas you can still easily outrun and outclimb a P40.  (The P40E is around 280/300mph and 2200/3100.)

So, I think the 109F would indeed be a bit of an overmatch for the P40B or E.  But I also feel that the P40B should be able to hold its own against the 109E about as well as the P40E does.  The P40B sacrifices some snap ability but the .50s still shoot 3 or 4 times as far as the 109E's cannon.

I also feel that in the CT we should accept that one side is going to be overmatched from time to time.  As always, I will fly for the side with the lowest numbers and simply make do with the planes available.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by HFMudd
In my humble opinion the 109E's biggest problem is the 60rpg in those already questionable cannon.   A couple attempts at tracking shots and your RTB Ammo.

Once the wep is gone, the P40B actualy has a bit better performance that the P40E.  I'm not sure how the two center synchronized .50 compare vs. wing mounts though.

The 109E vs 109F is a whole different ball of goo though.  The 109E hits something like 280/290mph (non-wep/wep) and climbs at 2750/3000.

The 109F is 310/330mph and 3400/3900 fpm.  Even with the gondolas you can still easily outrun and outclimb a P40.  (The P40E is around 280/300mph and 2200/3100.)

So, I think the 109F would indeed be a bit of an overmatch for the P40B or E.  But I also feel that the P40B should be able to hold its own against the 109E about as well as the P40E does.  The P40B sacrifices some snap ability but the .50s still shoot 3 or 4 times as far as the 109E's cannon.

I also feel that in the CT we should accept that one side is going to be overmatched from time to time.  As always, I will fly for the side with the lowest numbers and simply make do with the planes available.

I agree with the mud man.  I'm loving both sides of this setup.  If Axis, I get to fly that lovely 202, in which any kill makes you feel warm all over.  If Allied, I can fly the uber P-40, for probably the only time that will ever be so.  I never could fly the Emil, anyway.

- oldman

[detch01]

I have been flying Allies in this setup - love that P-40E but the other night I flew axis just because of the very large disparity in numbers. The allies outnumbered the axis by about 2 to 1.  I flew both the 109 and the 202 and to be perfectly honest I am amazed I was able to do so well in the P40 against these two aircraft.
In everything except pure outright firepower the 202 completely dominates the P40.
The 109 outclimbs, out zooms and out turns the P40 (or maybe just the P40 drivers). It's only when I was at medium speeds and at an altitude disadvantate that the P40 gave me any trouble at all.
Against everything the axis has the Hurricane is outclassed completely in everything except slow speed turn rate/radius.
I'm certainly no expert at this game, but I figure this setup is about as good as it's going to get with the plane set we've got available in AH. I love it

Cheers,

[Wilbus]

202 can dominate a fight with eas, problem is killing something with 2xBREDA machine guns. 109 E is marginally faster then Hurricane 1, climbs slightly slower and turns worse. Hurricane is in all and every situation better then the 109 E, pilot skill is what wins a fight between those two.

109 E can turn with P40 but is slower.

Main disadvantage of the 109 E is that it rolls about 15 degrees in one hour. All ANY enemy has to do it make 3 or 4 scissor turns and the 109 will be lost, even bombers outroll it.

[ergRTC]

202 and 109e (a plane I cant fly either) both outperform the p40.  Weopons of course are another story, but nowhere (if you look at the AH provided charts) does the 202 or the 109 have a performance disadvantage.  The p40 does have a speed advantage with wep down low, but wep is short in the 40 and the climb in the 109 makes up for the speed.

If you start furballing in a p47 down at 1000 feet against a a6m2 I wonder how long you are going to live?  you cant blame the planes on a pilots inability to fly them correctly.... Thats why some planes like the p40 f4u and others got such a terrible wrap to begin with. I dont mean that in a mean way.

[Wilbus]

Yeah the 109 has the advantage at high alt, but down low I'd rather have a P40, and especially those 50 cals.

109 E and P40 E climb the same up to 8k.

P40 is about 10mph faster at all alts up to 14k. At 15k they are as fast. Then on all alts above the 109 is 10-20 mph faster. P40 E top speed is higher then 109 E top speed though.

[ergRTC]

Wilbuz not to dis wep at all, but looking at the charts I think you are off a little.  I guess I dont count wep as true plane performance, and you must be looking at those for your comparisson.  Also, the 109 accelerates much better than the p40.  So once your slow, the 109 can still get away from you.  The one big advantage I see for the 40 performance wise is the energy retention, that p40 just loves to keep its speed up, and a little dive can bring it back up fast.