Heads up rooks!!

[slimm50]

Talk about participating in a mission, the main reason I don't is because of my SUCK-ASS connection! I get booted 3 times in the first 15 - 30 minutes. I'm talking CRASH-TO-DESKTOP, sometimes. I'd love to participate in an extended mission sometimes, but with only 5 to 15 minutes window for flying, it's usually a quickie fight I'm looking for.

[JB66]

Hello,
 One of the reasons why rooks don't fly missions is we are all busy on defense.  Sometimes we can convince the bish or knights to furball.  Usually though, we are in the process of falling back and protecting our HQ.
 If we were to fly missions we would have to take a certain number of rooks from their defensive assignments, which would open up an even larger hole in our front.
 I will say this on closing.  The rooks are the greatest team to fly with, my fighter skills are slowly improving and the vetern rooks will always give a check six call.

 JB66

[J_A_B]

When I log on and see this, I log back off.   I'm not going to waste my time trying to find a decent fight.   With no sector counters, we the players simply lack the tools to make good use of our time.  I'm not going to waste my time aimlessly flying around to MAYBE find a fight (or just as likely run into 30 kill-starved altmonkeys).   I have better things to do with my limited free time.

Note that in the image below, there are a grand total of 3 flashing bases....our HQ and two enemybases across the map.  It's safe to assume that whoever is at the HQ is probably a milkrunning LANC or some such thing (whcih doesn't count as a quality fight) and there's no indication of a decent battle anywhere else along our border.

I have always said and will say it again--the ability to knock out a country's sector counters is stupid and damaging to gameplay.  The entire "run a country off the map" gameplay system has enough flaws as it is, but not having such a basic necessary tool as sector counters ruins any ability to quickly locate a decent fight.


Attachment should follow.

J_A_B

[ccvi]

What rooks don't need:
- bish style missions with an average of 20+ players - numbers don't allow
- players sitting on the ground waiting for something before takeoff - too much time, also bad for numbers

Collecting players from all over the map in different situation to fly togehter is stupid with those low numbers.

Solution: Those have to fly together that were killed / landed at about the same time. This requires beeing willing to change the area of operation every flight, fly with others than the own squad, fly different kind of sorties (offensive jabo/defensive fighter/etc...) and, most of all, communicate with other players that are sitting in the tower. Except the last one just the right state of mind is required, communication is a bit difficult. I therfore suggest that all rook players on the ground meet IN THE TOWER OF THE FIELD CLOSEST TO HQ to discuss what to do next and then take off together.

This does NOT include waiting for 20 others. These kind of missions are too expensive for rooks. But 3-8 players flying together can have a great impact by forcing bish and knit to fight. This can be accomplished by porking enemy fields and the rook front, so that bish/knits have a longer way to fly to rookland and will choose to attack eachother because it's closer.

Thanks for posting the map, JAB. That situation looks really good for rooks actually. Knits only have a single field close to rookland, keep it porked and bish and knits will have to fight - much less threat for rooks.

[Innominate]

Originally posted by mipoikel

Personally I think it is up to us how things are going on and we should stop "whining" about numbers. It may help for a while but for some reason people dont want to stay in rooks.

One thing could help us and it is co-operation. We have seen many times that we can fight succesfully even lower numbers but that happens only if we do things together. And when we do things well, we get more people online.

So true.
Nice to see someone who isn't just falling back on "Waaaah we're outnumbered poor us".  Rooks aren't going to win, as long as the prevailing attitude is "I don't want to win, I just don't want to be reset"

I think a lot of it has to do with the simple fact that the rooks have the best fighter pilots.  It sounds like it should be an advantage but really works against you guys.  Two reasons, first of all, a good fighter pilot spends more time in fighters, fighting, furballing, whatever.    The second is that a good fighter pilot is going to give more thought to dangerous field attacks, where even a newbie would have no second thoughts about dive into a field to deack, or kill a hangar.

Bish and Knights have most of the newbies.  People who are essentially worthless in a fighter, and who know it, and make up for it by being helpfull to thier team, and hitting ground targets.  The weakness of the bishops and knights as fighter pilots, is thier strength in the war.

Some people seem to equate taking an attack plane into a heavily defended field as suicide divebombing.  The same also complain when a massed mission attacks the same field.  The same ALSO complain when they instead sneak an undefended field.  Taking a plane and crashing it into a hangar to hit with your bombs is pretty  lame(Especially since it leaves you worthless for no good reason).  

A teams numbers can be thought of as it's mass.  Once a team gets going, it gains players(as people log on, and avoid logging off), as it continues to take fields, it gains momentum, more players, the team its up against has trouble stopping it.  If stopped, even for a short time, the numbers go away, the people who were staying online because of the successes log off.  The attackers lose steam, and the defenders get the chance to turn things around.

Three final points:
If you don't care about winning, you will be reset.
Defense is a delaying action, there is no defense that cannot be beaten down.
Numbers help ensure success, they don't cause it.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by ghostdancer
Truthfully while missions are great I think the main reason that many Rooks and Rook squads don't post missions is simply because there isn't time and they take too long to get going.

Nope.. Rooks don't join, it's as simple as that.  I used to attempt to run missions frequently.  No support outside my own squad while Rook so I quit putting in the effort.  We rotated and I have to say that at least Bish and Knits enjoy an occasional mission.  Always a few folks ready to join up... no begging required.

[Kweassa]

The "essentialy worthless" stooges destroy the very point of operations while the "skilled pilots" you so appreciate are in Hell's Kitchen fending off masses of attacks as best as they can.

  How long do you think 5~10 good pilots can hold off massive hoardes consisting of twenty, thirty enemy planes again and again? At some point, they run out of ammo, they run out of fuel, and they are overwhelmed.

 The Knights and Bishops have their own share of good pilots, plus, a large, humongous reserve of average pilots who will also try their best to help their team. This raw, raw man power, is something we do not have.

 With limited numbers, a) its either stop the hoardes of suicidal pawns until the smart ones form up a plan that kills a base in a single pass, or b) halt the smart ones dead in their steps while the hoardes of kamikazes carrying loads go pork your field. Which ever the choice we make, its inevitable we're going to lose the field.... because, we are so frickin' low in numbers the best we can do is muster our forces and halt enemy advance at a SINGLE POINT. That's the logic behind the Rook furball. You don't seriously think spreading out the already pathetic numers and making small two~three men missions are going to turn the tide, do you?

 I don't know if the Bish, Knit "good pilots" stay off dangerous areas(since I see them showing up always in time of helpless vulches, they must be..), but the "good pilots" in Rooks virtually give everything to stop attacks. They fly goons, they drive vehicles, they defend vulched fields.. everything. But still, they have only one body. They cannot stop enemies in the air and on the ground at the same time.

 Numbers, are everything in a war. If it wasn't, the Hoarde wouldn't exist anyway.

 You don't know what it's like in a situation like this. What happens to a person when this goes on for weeks and months.

 If you really think there's a different way, larry along your squad and try flying with the Rooks in desperate times, and show us the alternative. It'd be quite interesting how you guys fare against the Hoarde.

 ......

 Look at the numbers below. I had a day off, got a chance to play a long session. We maintained 12 fields for the whole span under literally what can be called "Hell". This is about the best we can do with odds like this.

 If there is a different way, come, and show us.

 Otherwise stop talking crap like "numbers aren't everything"

[Kweassa]

The only reason I praise mipoikel, is because even the most enthusiastic people of them all in the Rooks, are starting to show signs of seriously low morale.

 It's like in sports movies where a shi**y team boost their morale by saying dramatic words.

 Unfortunately, we all know a team in shi**y condition and odds has virtually no chance of gaining victory in real life.

ps) anyone want a historic experience of what the last days of the Luftwaffe in '44 and '45 was like, come to the Rooks. It's.. um..  "educational"..

[Innominate]

Kweassa, the answer to your question is to fight like those so-called stooges.

Are you being mass attacked by bish or knight suicide dweebs?  You already know defending is futile.(as it is for everyone)  So therefore attacking is the only way out.  But how can a couple of pilots possible stop a horde?!!?

Easy.

Hit thier fuel.

A field with no fuel isn't going to be continuing an attack.  Two people can do it easily.  If the base defense is heavy, it may take two sorties, but it's not hard. Once done, the attack will fizzle out, the players will go elsewhere.

Whats the one thing, the so-called "good" rook pilots don't do?  Pierce through the hordes to hit a base, even if the odds of them surviving are almost nil.

Your skill is your weakness.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Kweassa

 Numbers, are everything in a war. If it wasn't, the Hoarde wouldn't exist anyway. [/b]

Numbers are not everything when people are thinking.  A very few people with a little patience can make huge strides in turning the tide.  These types of ops are what I find the greatest challenge and most fun.  2-3 guys can pork a field... thats all it takes if done right, and it doesn't require a "mission" (although wp's can help, spies can make them useless).  A 4-6 man split mission can pork two fields... however execution is the key.  I've seen this done with great effect, problem is that once the furball mindset sets in, it's hard to get people to take advantage of a lull in the attackers offensive.  

 You don't know what it's like in a situation like this. What happens to a person when this goes on for weeks and months.

My squad certainly does.  Got tired of it (months) and left for better conditions. (lack of participation and seeming attitude of "lets just furball" were the leading causes)

 If you really think there's a different way, larry along your squad and try flying with the Rooks in desperate times, and show us the alternative. It'd be quite interesting how you guys fare against the Hoarde.

We'll be back in a few days... time to wash the muck off our airframes we picked up flying Knit/Bish  

[ghostdancer]

I want to chime in here that it takes time to turn a ship. The Knights were in the same position as the Rooks are in now .. low numbers, lack of cooperation, etc. not to long. It took a concerted effort by Ripsnort and others to change the culture of Knight foster cooperation and rebuild numbers.

The effort is underway now in Rookland to improve things. It will take time but so far out of 80 squads flying Rooks 27 are now talking to each other and working together in the RJO to turn things about.

We know what he problems are it will just take some time to change the culture to address the issues that make it not fun to fly Rook for some and driven others away.

Right now Rookland is about stubborness and camaraderie. Those people who were concerned about their stats are no longer here. Those people whose end all goal was getting a reset are no longer here (although we still work toward resets). Those that are left are the stubborn b@stards who refuse to walk away from an unequal fight. Those that are left are the ones that find it more important to stand shoulder to shoulder with their friends, allied squads, and others who have refused to leave and fight to hold the line even know they know that its almost a hopeless fight and the best they can hope for is to simply not to be reset.

Tumor and Innominate thanks for the insights and advice. And actually what you both talk about is what the Rooks are doing. The mindset has switched to an extent (or is switching) to more of a defensive and tactical mode. Rooks do target the staging bases of enemy attacks. We are throwing in JABOs and BUFFs at an enemy staging base to kill fuel and barracks and ammo to stop their attack since we don't have enough pilots to fully stop it in the air. And most times these JABOs and BUFFs know its a one way mission and don't care about their stats ... but only focus on getting to target and killing fuel, etc. to relieve the pressure on our base under attack.

Rooks still do try small special ops missions. Its just harder to pull off now. Basically because when you are compacted into 12-15 or less bases its harder to run a special ops since you have a smaller front and you are guaranteed to almost have enemy fighters no matter where you go. But we still try.

The stuff you both talk about is what we are doing and its how we hold the line. Its good defensive tactics and works. However, until we rebuild our numbers its very hard to launch a successful and sustainable offensive when you are fielding less than 100 pilots on average and facing off against opponents that have from 30 - 70 more pilots than you do for each country.

This is not a whine or an excuse .. we are discussing our problems, we know what we need to do and we are working on it. But it takes time for things to shift and to change things so that numbers rebuild.

And Kweassa is right in his analogy .. its a siege of sorts. I haven't used the LW in 1944 and 1945 analogy but it fits. I also compare us to the Spartans at Thermopylie, the Texans at the Alamo, etc. ... it takes a certain mindset to play in that type of environment and to find fun in it until we rebuild are numbers.

One thing it most definitely has done is its a crucible that hones your SA and fighting skills.

Tumor hope to see the GroveRats back in Rookland soon. Drop me a note when you guys come back.

[ghostdancer]

Oh and btw the way numbers are not everything. If you don't user your horde skillfully and wisely a smaller force can routinely beat it (as been shown throughout history). But it does come down to the smaller force being better organized, better used, and better tactics. If the horde is well organized, well used, and has good tactics all the small force can expect to do is to yield every inch stubbornly and at a high cost.

[FDutchmn]

oh man I see really silly remarks made here...  but I am not gonna go into it...

Don't you guys think its silly going on this topic again and again?  Rooks Squads are addressing the issue.  Let's move on.

[ghostdancer]

Oh my gawd .. got Fdutchmn to think I am silly! That is lot like the pot calling the kettle black.

[FDutchmn]

no! not you GD.  But we got better jobs to do than reply to these silly remarks.