IJN/IJA, the early war planeset and play balance

[Karnak]

Is this setup considered balanced?

IJN/IJA:

A6M2 (1941)
B5N1 (1938)
D3A1 (1937)

vs.

USN/USAAF/RAF

Boston Mk III (1942)
F4F-4 (1941)
F4U-1 (1942)
Hurricane Mk I (1940)
Hurricane Mk IIc (1941)
P-40B (1940)
P-40E (1941)
SBD-5 (1943)
TBM-3 (1942)


If it is, please tell be how and why.  If it isn't, please explain the adding of the B5N to the already weak Japanese planeset.  Adding the B5N actually acomplished something that was quite difficult, it weakened the Japanese from a hopeless position to a punching bag position.

As AH presents it, the Pacific War would have been over in mid-1942 or early-1943 because the Japanese are so completely outclassed.

[Slash27]

Atleast its a step closer to a complete plane set:)  Hopefully more is on the way, Mitsu is still lobbying hard.

[brady]

I do In general agree Karnak, howeaver I must say this:

  Politics, the fleshing out of the Pearl harbor plane set is good for the CM's, we all saw Tora Tora Tora, and Mate Damon was just so cute in the pos movie Pearl harbor, the setting is a popular one, and those three planes the Val the Kate and the A6M2 were the primary tools with which the Japanese Navy wreaked it's destruction in the early part of the war in the Pac.

 Pyro: In his defense he was damned no mater what plane he chose for Japan, that is If he only chose one to add this patch, their may be more. He did do somthing by chusing this plane he filled the Early war Japanese CV planeset, and made it possable for the CM's to do a number of events that represent with far more imershion battles that are very prevelent in the American psychie.

 Personal: I fear we may be stuck with the Kate, what I mean by this that we may not see the Jill, or the Grace, since we alread have a Japanese torp bomber. Clearly the Jill would of been a better Balancing choice when set aganst the Mid war US CV planes we have at present, and Ultimately the Best choice for Main Areana utility would of been the Grace.

 Balance, the imbalance curently could be construed as more of an issue that the US does not have early war planes(or models) to set oppset those being represented by Japan, for some the mear fact that this is a reality could be considered a slap in the face. Howeaver I can not see how on earth this could be intentional.

 It's kinda like that Tiger tank we got, she was not the best German tank, certainly the Panther was far more deadly and produced in far greater number's but less well known, it is the Hollywood efect.

[Slash27]

Matt Damon was not in Pearl harbor


It was Heath Ledger.

[Karnak]

Slash27,

For the reasons brady states, I doubt there will be a new Japanese torp plane added in the next two years.

By getting what from all appearances is a B5N1 we will be stuck using a completely outdated piece of crap in all Pacific Theatre setups for the forseable future.

Why the heck does HTC add 1930s versions of Japanese attack aircraft, but then add 1943 versions for the USN?  It completely jacks any possibility of balance.  There is simply nothing that the Japanese can do to overcome this kind of arbitrtary handicap.

Why can we not get Japanese aircraft that would actually start to redress the balance issues?

In the early war we are stuck with no usable offenive aircraft and must defend against a bomber that is faster than our fighter, and F4F-4s that are modeled so wildly optimistically that the A6M2 can barely out turn them and so tough that a single F4F can absorb nearly all of an A6M2's ammo.

In the late war we are persistantly saddled with our fastest fighter barely hitting 360, mediocre turning, a crappy climb rate and poor acceleration.  At least it can struggle into the air with two 250kg bombs, but it handles its ordanance worse than any other fighter in the game.  Against this we have aircraft that carry 2,500lbs of bombs, ten rockets and go 430mph.

On top of all that, we are almost always outnumbered two or three to one.

And HTC's solution is to give us the B5N1?  I am practically laughing in disbelief.

[GRUNHERZ]

"In the late war we are persistantly saddled with our fastest fighter barely hitting 360, mediocre turning, a crappy climb rate and poor acceleration."

Karnak are you saying the N1K2-J has mediocre turning and poor climb? Because if you are then, and I honestly don't mean to offend you, but you need to practice a lot, and then some more and yet again some more if you can't get that plane to turn well or accelerate in a dogfight.  Sorry but that statement of your's is incredibly bizzare if you talk about the N1K2-J.


However I agree that the F4F4 seems to turn far too well in comparsion to the A6M2, especially at slow speeds and in vertical manouvers. Yes eventually the A6M2 will win but the F4F4 is incredibly close to zero in that regard, and certainly has none of the startling manouverability weakneses in those areas as discussed in WW2 combat accounts.

The high speeds of the A20, B26, and even the B17 were noted by Japanese A6M2 pilots early in the war and seem accurate. However they still mention the fact that A6M2 could catch these bombers in an extended tail chase but I have had little success in even keeping up with US bombers when flying the A6M2 sometimes, let alone catching them .

In the meantime please reconsider your niki statement or at least arrange some good old practice time....

[brady]

Doh...Ben Hafleck....Sory gents after crying on my therispts couch and muttering kate kate kate all day she uped my medication....i am not well:)

[Karnak]

GRUNHERZ,

No, I am refering to the Ki.61-I-KAIc.  In the CT we rarely get the N1K2-J as it is seen as too "dweeby" and "MA". I agree with you that the N1K2-J turns, accelerates and climbs very well.  It also handles it's two 250kg bombs quite nicely.

The problem with the F4F-4 vs. the A6M2 is that before your A6M2 eventually wins, the F4F-4's wingman will inevitably use the great muzzle velocity on his six .50 calibre guns to turn your A6M2 into confetti in a tenth of a second.  In the reverse the F4F-4s can take many seconds of fire from your 7.7mm guns and the crappy muzzle velocity on your Type 99 Model Is means you need and incredibly close shot to hit.

The problem with bomber speed in AH (and this is true of all bombers) is that they all run at full throttle.  In reality that wasn't possible and bombers had to use lower cruise settings.  This needs to be fixed in AH in order for the bomber / fighter relationship to resemble the WWII bomber / fighter relationship.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

****************************************************
As far as making this game more fun to play, the IJN/A needs better planes, realistic or not!
****************************************************

sorry Karnak, HA and all other current flight sims are allied bias, always have been always will be, however..............

By luck the allies smashed the Japanese carriers at The battle of Midway June 1942. This hurt the Japanese as the same would have happened to the Americans if the Japanese would have sank the US Carriers. It wasnt untill October 1942 that the Americans had fully evolved tactics to counter the Zero.

The Japanese ruled the Pacific based on Knowlage and Experiance not "Fighter Power"! There are many stories about Japanese pilots not even using MGs because they wernt much good yeat the 7.7s could bring down several F4Fs and P-40s. The allied pilots didnt know how to fight the much experanced IJN pilots.

(In WWII the P-38 so called shot down more planes than any other allied fighters combined. The F6F was the best carrier fighter) In AH its always the F4U!!!!

Forget the plane sets, even with the proper plane sets, the IJN/A needs the allies to be ignorant just as they were in 1940, early 1941. Once the allies learned the Zero wasnt so tuff, and learned how to fight it, (by 31 Oct, 42) it was all down hill from there.

For a good ballanced early war CT set-up, this is what the IJN/A would need:

A6M2
Val
Kate

F4F
P-40B
P-40-E
TBF

HANDI-CAP based on early war allied pilot ignorance on dogfighting skills vs the Zero.

1. ease up on the tuffness of the allied "Tanks"!
2. hender the dive, climb and turn capabilities of alliedfighters
3. 5 to 1 odds (the Japs always overwelmed thier opponets)
4. or always let us use the Nick!!
This will never happen in a flight sim, but this is what would have to take place for a real "Historic-like" early war set-up. After that, we're toast!!


****************************************************As far as making this game more fun to play, the IJN/A needs better planes, realistic or not!
****************************************************

[Karnak]

CurtissP-6EHawk,

The skill problem cuts both ways.  You give us Japanese the Ki.84 in late war setups and we'll do far, far better with it than the Japanese did historically because we aren't all clueless newbies.  The Ki.84 can nearly match the fast Allied rides in speed up to 10,000ft or so, and it has the performance to beat them in other areas too.

The Japanese built 3,500 Ki.84s.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

oh yeah, that too ;-)

[oboe]

Hawk!   When was the Battle of Midway?!   You better fix that error, bud.

The deck is certainly stacked against the Japanese here.  I have alot of hope for v1.11 that the Japanese will see some relief with more late war planes coming.   The Ki.84, the J2M3, the Ki.100,
would help and be appreciated alot.

The A6M3 and the Ki.43 and Ki.44 would add depth to the mid-war planeset, and the Ki.45 would give us some much needed ground attack punch, with its 2 20mms and a 37mm in the nose.
 
I fear a mass defection of Japanese flyers to Target:Rabaul once it goes open beta, but HTC could stave this off by concentrating on the late-war planes that T:R won't be modelling for some time.

[keyapaha]

I too think the Japanese plane set needs a good ground attack plane like the ki102 with the 57mm cannon package but I can live with the ki45 or any thing at this point.

[Nifty]

[cajun]

That'd be great setup, cant wait to have a val/kate mission

Just take out F4u1 and hurri 2c (or at least enable them at only 1 base in the back), and add Ki67...

Were british fightin in the pacific in 41-42 though?