Author Topic: Reperations..........  (Read 2824 times)

Offline SaburoS

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Reperations..........
« Reply #165 on: November 03, 2002, 04:33:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Airhead and/or SaburoS why don't you all tell everyone exactly what makes either of you two so NON-RACIST...

You all seem to get a kick out of calling everyone else a racist and have many examples and smart bellybutton remarks calling others racist why not tell us some of the things and give examples from your daily lives showing how you guys are so NON-RACIST.

Cmon, lets see that! :)


I've called everyone else a racist? Show me.

For your benefit:

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective

Do you really THINK before you post? Scary thought.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #166 on: November 03, 2002, 06:13:42 AM »
Everyone take note how SaburoS cleverly managed to avoid answering my question...

Offline ethernaut

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« Reply #167 on: November 03, 2002, 07:26:15 AM »
I was directed to this thread with the promise of amusement. For some reason, this bickering didn't quite amuse me. It made me tired. However, having invested the time reading the thread, I can't walk away without saying something.

What I hear is people fed up with debt, whether financial, moral, civic, or some ambiguous combination thereof, deserved or not, and expressing their frustration in racist terms (because, obviously, the face of America is still white). (You can backpeddle, I mean, "clarify" all you want, but the initial snarky remarks were racist.)

Someone, Sandman? made some good points about why reparations won't work, but whitewashed (heh) the century of institutionalized discrimination that followed the Emancipation.

The New Deal (as someone else mentioned) wasn't created to assist specifically black Americans or descendants of slaves. The New Deal was meant to provide a safety net for all Americans after the Great Depression. Affirmative Action, on the other hand, was created to try to combat the existing inequalities (in education, in economic opportunities) most black Americans (and women) faced.

If anyone tries to convince me that the socio-economic playing field was leveled with the Emancipation Proclamation (or women's right to vote), I'll just tell you to go back to your crack pipe. Cos that's just willful delusion.

And yes, privilege is awfully hard to lose, so I understand the resentment.

What gets lost in discussing racism is the a priori advantage that white people, and especially white men, have just for being born white in this country. To use what I hope is a non-controversial example, back when I was growing up (in the 60's and 70's), news anchors reporting crimes didn't use the race signifier "white" when the suspect was white. It was socially understood (i.e., taken for granted) that unless there was a race signifier (black, Chinese, Hispanic), the suspect was obviously white, so there was no need to make that distinction.

If those of you white men eager to pay the fare for Sharpton, et al, to go "back to Africa" are suffering during this dismal economic period, your individual experience doesn't negate the fact that the vast majority of the wealth (both financial and political) in this country belongs to... white men. As a group.

What I'm saying is that you can't extrapolate your anecdotal evidence into a broad social commentary (the backlash bash) or a narrow good-ol'-boy squeakslap against "those people" and not expect to be challenged when you do. In public.

The irony here is the person who extrapolates his experience into a general social dynamic and yet can't grasp that he does the opposite when judging others.

To the person who threw down the "vets fought and died in battle so you could have freedom of speech" gauntlet, I say, Dare we make a travesty of their valiant sacrifice by silencing perspectives you, the self-proclaimed arbiter of acceptable speech, find absurd, a "debauchery"?

To SaburoS: I don't think racism or prejudice or bigotry can be reduced to a self-esteem issue. Jealousy, maybe, but not racism. Racism, and I'm not an expert in psycho-social dynamics, I see as more of an ignorance and superiority-complex issue, the latter of which would dovetail with the idea of the "white standard," a sort of divine-monarchy complex of the white male in America with its inherent social (but not biological) advantages. Who but the most enlightened and noble-minded would want to give that up, or even share it? All men were not created equal, but we should all have equal opportunity. Let character determine the rest.

To get back on the ostensible topic, I don't support reparations for slavery. The concept of compensation for the sins of our fathers, while perhaps fairminded and filled with good intentions, seems inherently convoluted to the point of inefficacy.

As for this current zeitgeist of entitlement, I'll tell you what gets my back hairs up. Families of WTC victims expecting a free ride for the rest of their lives and their children's lives, as if no one ever lost a spouse before September 11.... But that's another topic.

Offline Tumor

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« Reply #168 on: November 03, 2002, 10:09:28 AM »
oooooooooooo... did ya'll see ethernaughts extensive use of big words? :D

anyway...

Quote
To get back on the ostensible topic, I don't support reparations for slavery. The concept of compensation for the sins of our fathers, while perhaps fairminded and filled with good intentions, seems inherently convoluted to the point of inefficacy.
[/b]

A more accurate description of reparations IMHO would be:  It WILL create overt (release if you want to go there) racism on a level not seen in this country before.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2002, 10:22:18 AM by Tumor »
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Offline ccvi

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« Reply #169 on: November 03, 2002, 10:18:09 AM »
First of all:

Give the "indians" or "native american" or however they are called their land back!

Offline capt. apathy

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« Reply #170 on: November 03, 2002, 10:39:23 AM »
hell I'm a native american (born right here) give me some land

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #171 on: November 03, 2002, 10:48:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tumor
oooooooooooo... did ya'll see ethernaughts extensive use of big words? :D

anyway...


And proper punctuation and grammar.  Something else that's new to you, Tumour?



Quote
It WILL create overt (release if you want to go there) racism on a level not seen in this country before.


Did you get that tip from Ms. Cleo?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #172 on: November 03, 2002, 11:27:31 AM »
saburo... yu add nothing... we don't even know where you stand on the matter.  You are cowardly in attacking those who lashed out and using that to foster a holier than thou attitude.   You come off like a knee jerk liberal.   Why don't you just say who it is that yu think is racist?   Why don't you just tell us how you stand on reparations?  

Why did I single out animal?   Well... gee... He is the only person that apears to be a black guy in the thread.   He would likely have something to gain by reparations.   The rest of us (so far as I know) would have something to lose so.... right or not.. we have self interest involved.

st santa... you are a racist with your swede vs ....oh.. wait a minute.. nevermind.
lazs

Offline Airhead

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« Reply #173 on: November 03, 2002, 12:54:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Airhead and/or SaburoS why don't you all tell everyone exactly what makes either of you two so NON-RACIST...


GRUNHERZ I was done with this thread, but since you asked...

I deal with people head to head, not body to body. Well, except my wife anyway. I honestly don't care what color you are- amazinhunks come in all the colors of the rainbow, likewise kindered spirits. I don't do funny handshakes because the person I've just been introduced to is black, I don't bow when I meet Asians and I don't keep one hand on my wallet when I meet Mexicans.

Now if I'm walking down the street at night, see someone walikng towards me and he's black, am I more on guard than if he were white? Yeah, but so would a black person be more on guard in my position. You may decide if that makes me a racist or not. Personally I don't think anyone here is in the Klan, but being Irish I would like to state that Tumor is a sellout house Paddy.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #174 on: November 03, 2002, 01:26:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Everyone take note how SaburoS cleverly managed to avoid answering my question...


He never does although I wouldn't go so far as to call it clever.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #175 on: November 03, 2002, 02:50:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guy Hiding Behind a Psuedonym
Blah blah leftie psychobabble blah blah blah oh you guys were right.

Offline ethernaut

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« Reply #176 on: November 03, 2002, 03:30:23 PM »
Tumor wrote:
"A more accurate description of reparations IMHO would be: It WILL create overt (release if you want to go there) racism on a level not seen in this country before."

You sure about that, Tumor? Maybe in our lifetime, but certainly not in the lifetime of this country.

Airhead mentioned that if he were out alone at night and saw a black man walking towards him, he would be more alert to potential violence than if the stranger were white.

Recently, I saw a black comedian on a late-night talkshow. His routine was based on his worry about being that black man. A lone black man at night is a potential suspect without an alibi. He said that he made sure he went to a 7-Eleven every thirty minutes and bought something so that he would have a receipt. If he didn't have any money, he argued with the cashier so that the cashier would remember the exchange later. And if a blonde woman walked towards him, he would run in the other direction.

I don't think a white comedian could have gotten the same laughs with that routine.

Offline ethernaut

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« Reply #177 on: November 03, 2002, 03:42:07 PM »
Dear funkedup,

I agreed that reparations for slavery was too complicated to work. It doesn't follow that I agreed with the attitudes of those who expressed the same idea.

Same destination, different path.

Love,
e

Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #178 on: November 03, 2002, 03:46:16 PM »
I'm all for reparations...As long as it is being sought by the person(s) who was violated(enslaved,forced into prison/concentration camps...etc)

But when it's a generation or two after the fact...Get a life,not a lawyer.
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Offline Tumor

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« Reply #179 on: November 03, 2002, 06:02:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ethernaut
Tumor wrote:


You sure about that, Tumor? Maybe in our lifetime, but certainly not in the lifetime of this country.

 


  IMO, reparations will create racism, in an overt manner, from ALL races involved, beyond anything we've seen before.  Personally... I'm absolutely certain of it.  IF granted, the current "demand" for reparations could easily spark a chain reaction (if it hasn't already) that could do wonders towards bankupting this country (if not economicly... socially).  I understand the reasoning behind this outlandish "demand" however... I also understand how easy it is to support something that equals your life becoming a "free ride".  It's a bad idea... as bad as it is selfish as it is ridiculous.  I'm very sorry folks 3 or 4 generations ago were not given these reparations, they should have.  The key word being "THEY".

Quote
Originally posted by ethernaut
"Airhead mentioned that if he were out alone at night and saw a black man walking towards him, he would be more alert to potential violence than if the stranger were white.


I'm not Airhead.  If I see a white guy walking towards me at night, dirty, wearing a bandana and covered with Tattoo's... I'd be allot more guardiant than if it were a black man in a suit.  IMHO that analogy is all about how the "guy walking towards me" presents himself.  Looks like a gangbanger, walks like a gangbanger, talks like a gangbanger... probably a gangbanger.  If thats profiling.. I'm so sorry but, get over it.  IF it's racist... go piss up a rope (not to anyone in particular).


Tumor
« Last Edit: November 03, 2002, 06:13:54 PM by Tumor »
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann