Author Topic: Midway Glaring proof of why we nead the A6M3 (Read 482 times)

brady · « **on:** November 02, 2002, 04:42:01 PM »

Well, I for one elected not to play Midway because of the funky plane set, we have late model wildcats and early model Zero's...and other imbalances which have been debated to death and I will not go into that yet again.

I will mention why the A6M3 is such and important plane, and I realy just dont get Why In light of the Alled planes which were added oppset it in the last patch we got the A6M2.

The A6M3 begain to inter service in spring 1942.

The A6M3 had Type 99MK II cannons with 100 rpg. Not he Type 99 MK I cannons we have with 60rpg on the A6M2.

The A6M3 was slightly Faster than the "2"

The A6M3 had a slightly shorter range than the A6M2.

The primary diferances were the Cannons, With better balistics, better rof and more ammo, the durabality of the Allied planes and their 50cal uberness could be mitagated to some extant, curently it is exceunated. Which seams to be theam in the curent PAC plane set.

In all fairness the CM's did good with what they had to work with.

Taiaha · « **Reply #1 on:** November 02, 2002, 04:55:55 PM »

Hmmm. You might want to ask some of the USN pilots who fought in the Midway scenario today (those few who made it back) whether they would like to see a faster more heavily armed Zero. . .

DA98 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 02, 2002, 04:56:55 PM »

Hehe, I had a great time seeing those little paper planes falling to the SDB's guns of VMSB-241 at Midway scenario...

jordi · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2002, 05:19:14 PM »

Each side lost 2 CV's.

Pretty even to me considering the plane set.

Both sides had over 170 pilots up each.

GREAT JOB BY ALL INVOLVED.

J_A_B · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2002, 05:25:08 PM »

I think the biggest "hole" in the rule set was not requiring the IJN TBM's to empty their forward guns at takeoff (Kate had no foreward guns).

Of course this didn't affect me at all sicne I can't participate in this scenario

J_A_B

john9001 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2002, 06:48:17 PM »

in RL midway the IJN did not know the USN had any CV's at midway , IJN thought the USN only had 2 CV's and they were at Hawaii, so they attacked the island.
in the SEA the IJN knew the USN had 3 CV's at midway so went looking for them right at first instead of attacking the island.
also because they did not expect any USN CV's , the IJN had all their CV's in one group so once the fleet was spotted all USN AC could be directed to that point.

Squire · « **Reply #6 on:** November 02, 2002, 07:14:55 PM »

This only pertains to the F4F vs Zero thing:

Whats to debate? The Midway F4F in real life was the F4F-4 and the IJN A6M was the A6M2. Thats what they had. A6M3? fine, add it, but not a single A6M3 saw service at Midway. None. You make it sound like the USN gets some unfair "unhistoric" fighter while the IJN has to make do with some lesser type?

In case there is some misconception that the Zeros ruled at Midway vs F4Fs they didnt. The F4Fs gave as good as they got in air to air battles there. Read any account you like of the battle.

Regards.

Charon · « **Reply #7 on:** November 02, 2002, 07:15:07 PM »

I wasn't aware that the A6M3 actually made it to carrier deployment by the time of Midway, with the A6M2-21 still being the carrier deployed version that took part in the battle. In fact, even though production began shortly before Midway, I though the first combat action occurred over New Guinea and the Solomons.

Quote

Following limited service in Japan, the A6M3s were deployed to the New Guinea/Solomons area in the late spring of 1942 in preparation for the invasion of Australia. Initially, the Allies thought that the A6M3 was an entirely new fighter because of its squared-off wingtips, and Capt. Frank McCoy's team at the Directorate of Intelligence of the Allied Air Forces, Southwest Pacific Area, assigned it the code name HAP, after the nickname of General Henry Arnold, the USAAF's Chief of Staff. The General was not amused, and had Capt. McCoy called onto the carpet to explain just what he was up to. Capt McCoy seems to have survived this particular episode, but the code name of the new square-winged fighter was quietly changed to HAMP. When Allied intelligence finally recognized that the aircraft was not a new design but was actually a modified version of the ZEKE, it was renamed ZEKE 32.

Charon

Mitsu · « **Reply #8 on:** November 02, 2002, 09:01:16 PM »

I want to see A6M3 Model 32 HAMP.
It has faster roll, faster speed, better ammo, better climb than Model 21.

Mitsu · « **Reply #9 on:** November 02, 2002, 09:15:32 PM »

brady · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2002, 12:30:43 AM »

Well my sources indiacted the F4F-3, and that the A6M3 was indead thier, but on closer inspection my Zero source is somewhat vauge on this point.

The adation of the A6M3 would go a long way to balancing out the allied firepower advantage, and in general be a better match up aganst the F4F-4.

oboe · « **Reply #11 on:** November 03, 2002, 07:59:20 AM »

The lack of Japanese planes seems to be a characteristic of AH. Examine any period of the Pacific war, and you'll find glaring holes in AH's Japanese planeset. With the addition of the B5N, the 1940-1941 planeset is pretty strong, but there is still absolutely nothing for the IJAAF during Japan's expansion years.

Many players are finally calling for more Japanese planes; I do hope the Japanese get more than just the B5N alongside the Tiger tank and Me163 rocket plane in v1.11.

I feel for the CMs trying to produce and run scenarios under these constraints. I was embarrassed yesterday, while taking part in the Midway scenario where I had to watch big blue TBMs roll down Kaga's deck on their way to strike the American fleet. That just weren't right!

Here's to v1.11, and succor for the Japanese faithful!

Swager · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2002, 09:52:05 AM »

Thank goodness I am not anal enough to not participate in a great time due to a slight variance in a plane set.

I disregarded the small difference and had a great time in the Midway Frame 1.

I could not imagine going through life on the sidelines because everything was not perfect.

Have a wonderful day!

Karnak · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2002, 12:56:50 PM »

As I wasn't at the Midway scenario yesterday soI can't say for sure, but this seems like pretty clear evidence to me that either the F4F-4 is overmodeled or the A6M2 is under modeled:

Kills and Deaths in the first frame of the Midway scenario:

A6M2: Kills: 81 | Deaths: 86 | Ratio 0.96 to 1 |
F4F-4: Kills: 83 | Deaths: 51 | Ratio 1.63 to 1 |

That's just not right, especially as it is the A6M not the F4F that is widely agreed on to have been the first carrier fighter to match land based fighter's in performance.

jordi · « **Reply #14 on:** November 03, 2002, 01:40:11 PM »

One can not factor in the QUALITY of the pilots in each set of planes or the amount of PRACTICE time either set of pilots put in.

Plus probaly 1/2 of hte Zekes had to travel from the Sunk Norther CV's and try to land at the end of the frame at thier Southern Carriers.

I look at it this way - BOTH Sides sank 2 carriers - that made the OVERALL Balance pretty equal.

Your milage may vary.