Author Topic: How about this for ICONS. (Read 388 times)

jbroey3 · « **on:** November 18, 2002, 07:01:15 PM »

Why dont you just get rid of the TARGET laser range finder.. and only have a Sign above the aircraft. (heres a Compromise)

I know I know.. many of you will start your crying now.. because you need to have a Giant NEON Placard with "Range" information above your target so you dont lose sight.

Hows about instead of looking at the Freaking Range finder.. (and Even the damn ICON at all..) and start looking at the REAL target... THE AIRCRAFT.

For the love of God.. I wish Aces high would start Being A SIMULATION and stop being a tard game.

XNachoX · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2002, 07:20:52 PM »

Once again. It is completely impossible to achieve depth perception in a 19'' flat monitor.
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TheCage · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2002, 07:37:41 PM »

The game has a way of turning off the icons. If you hate them so much just turn them off! No need to change the game to do that. Just look in the Help file for the keys to do it. How ever good luck telling who's who.

J_A_B · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2002, 07:41:38 PM »

Are you trolling jbroey?

If not, why do you want to "simulate" legally blind virtual pilots?

J_A_B

JustJim · « **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2002, 08:18:12 PM »

ALT + I Will Toggle Icon Selection To Names ,Plane Type, Friendlies Only, Or Icons Off For That Matter

Try That It Will Get Your Icon Delema Off Your Screen And You Can Play It "YOUR WAY"

Hope That Helps.

JustJim
< < DragonHawks > >

jbroey3 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2002, 08:21:40 PM »

Trolling?.. no.. Its a simple fact.

PEOPLE HERE Rely on Those big fluffy colored Neon Placards hanging over the enemies aircraft.

My point, however is... a compromise.

Leave the Large Neon Placards for the "Blind"... and get rid of the Range information.

It takes NO depth perception to "See" when something is getting "Bigger".

There is no need for "Depth" here.. its not truely a 3d world that we are playing. But ANYONE can determine if a dot/pixel/Aircraft is "Growing in SIZE".

If the PLanes are Growing in size... Common sense will tell you... YOUR Getting CLOSER... Get ready to fight.

XNachoX · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2002, 08:44:02 PM »

Ok, Sure. You can try to dilute yourself that we rely on the icons because we are dweeby and unskilled, but the fact still remains that it is impossible to get any kind of information from a 2d pixel other than it's coming closer, it's going farther away. You can hamper yourself all you want by turning off icons, but I will leave them on.
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Karnak · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2002, 08:47:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by jbroey3
There is no need for "Depth" here.. its not truely a 3d world that we are playing. But ANYONE can determine if a dot/pixel/Aircraft is "Growing in SIZE".

roadkill.

I play at 1280 by 1024. A fighter at a range of more than about 2,000 yards consists of so few pixels that it is not possible to tell anything about your closure rate.

I would like to see icons changed, but what you suggest is simple minded lunacy.

jbroey3 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2002, 09:40:45 PM »

Whos the simple minded one here karnak..?

The one who HAS the ability to decipher an object gaining or lessening distance, or the one that is UNABLE to.

Gee, I think I must be somewhat more "developed" than you then.

Maybe its just me, but with my vision I have NO problem doing the above.

Whats your excuse?

And for those who do not "quite" understand what I am saying.
I shall keep it simple.

Name of plane(friend or Foe colour) ----> Still over airplane
Distance information----> Not over airplane any longer.

I hope all can grasp this inconceivably, utterly amazing brain stressing idea.

ALF · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2002, 09:59:04 PM »

Its a fact that the current tech of the computer monitor does not provide anywhere near the information you get in real life. There is no workable substitute for the range on the icons. Anyone with reasonable eyesight can tell if a car is moving towards them or away from them, on a computer monitor, you cannot...there just are not enough pixels to provide detailed enough information on relative movement.

I play at 1600x1200, and it would be nearly impossible to tell if a con at 1000 yards was getting closer or farther away based soley on the graphics in the game if the closure rate was fairly low (5 mph for example) without watching the change over tens of seconds....in real life I do it without thinking about it constantly.

Now imagine the poor soul at 640x480 or even 800x600.

I do think that the fact that an actual range number is displayed is somewhat overkill. I would prefer a closure rate, and also a more coarse range figure (you still need #s of some sort because 3k looks identicle to 6k in the game)

Lets keep away from the name calling please. It does nothing to bolster your position, but does great harm to the community. We all have ideas and opinions, and while mine are always right

, calling names doesnt make it more so.

Karnak · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2002, 10:28:55 PM »

jbroey,

I'd love to see you look at three pixels and be able to tell if you are getting closer or further away.

If you can tell that with significantly greater accuracy than 50%, start a psychic phone hotline business.

You are spouting off roadkill like its fact andf like you know what you are talking about. You clearly have no clue about the subject.

I suggest you use the search function and read what I and others have suggested as changes in the past.

Personally I'd like to get rid of the range indicator for cons under 1000 yards away.

I've also suggested replacing the range indicator with a graphical closure indicator.

Another suggestion is to make the icons smaller so they are less obvious.

The fact of the matter is that the further away a con is, the more we need the data provided by icons to balance out the loss of data we'd have in real life. Under 1000 yards the closure rate can at least be reasonably acertained, but much beyond that and people with low end systems start have a major disadvantage forced on them. Telling if you are gaining on a con that is 3,000 yards away is all and well when you're at 1600 by 1200, but the poor suckers at 800 by 600 don't have a prayer of being able to read that.

Out of curiosity, how much detail do you think you could make out, in reality, on a P-51D at 1000 yards? How about 2000? 3000? 4000? 5000? 6000?

Griego · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2002, 10:34:09 PM »

Just leave friendly Icons on and turn off the enemy icons and there ya go. No icon on enemy planes.

It sure makes it harder to see the enemy but it can be alot more imersive.

jbroey3 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2002, 10:50:43 PM »

I have 20/15 vision, I also fly in real the real world. I have an understanding of what looks like "what" and how "far" things generally are.

Yes, the Reality of this is very obvious: You cannot see as much in a computer "game" as you can in reality, However. Because of the Inheient fact that on the "PC" we have pixels, it is a GREAT clarification as to what you ARE able to see here as opposed to the real world.

Said another way, you can infact SEE MORE here on the PC screen when dealing with aircraft in most cases because of the issues of Limited Blending/visiblity/graphics.. A simple Dot is EXTENSIVLY more as shown here in aces high when in contrast to seeing another Aircraft at the same Range in the Real World.

I am ALSO an Artist, A 3d computer modeler, as well as retouch photo editor type. I DEAL with Pixel by Pixel issues almost daily when doing art. I Fully UNDERSTAND what is shown.. and what is not.

Aces High is very "Crisp" in its graphics,.. no sort of blending, or highly intense coloring/shading, nothing;

this allows you to See that "dot" very very far away.. and I.. yes.. I can see the difference as to the relative motion and its effect on Drawing Near, or creating a GAP measured in distance between me and the contact.

I have played at ONLY 1024x768 and I have a very very clear picture of the virtual world around me.

Shiva · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2002, 12:33:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by jbroey3
Said another way, you can infact SEE MORE here on the PC screen when dealing with aircraft in most cases because of the issues of Limited Blending/visiblity/graphics.. A simple Dot is EXTENSIVLY more as shown here in aces high when in contrast to seeing another Aircraft at the same Range in the Real World.

This is one reason why it was proposed that, when a plane is too far away to actually draw the shape of the plane, that the paint scheme for the side of the plane facing the player be averaged and used for the color of the dots. This would return the use of camouflage for the upper and lower surfaces (well, at least while out of icon range), giving camouflaged planes back a little edge. Not much, though, once you get within con range.

J_A_B · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2002, 02:01:25 AM »

Hmm....

First he claims to be a pilot with 20/15 vision

THEN he claims: "you can infact SEE MORE here on the PC screen when dealing with aircraft" and claims that the dots can be seen "very very far away" (presumably farther than the naked eye can see airplanes).

"I have played at ONLY 1024x768 and I have a very very clear picture of the virtual world around me."

At that resolution, the view of the AH world is considerably worse than 20/100 vision and it's 2D tunnelvision without depth perception to top it off. You couldn't even get a DRIVER's licence with vision that bad and you're claiming that it's BETTER than real 20/15 vision?

Dude....I call roadkill.

J_A_B