Author Topic: just an idea  (Read 917 times)

Offline muckmaw

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just an idea
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2002, 09:28:11 AM »
I'm sorry to say, Shane, I would.

That's the God's honest truth.

I enjoy a challenge. I enjoy diversity.

In contrast, you say it is my fault for getting killed. You're correct. (You sound like you used to play UO.)

But in AH, if the factories are so important, then it would require pilots to make an active effort to defend them. So losing a factory, and thereby your favorite ride, would be you and your teammates fault.

This is what it all comes down to folks. You have 2 camps in this game. No one better than the other. You have those who want to hop in a plane, fly, kill, die, repeat.  

The other camp is interested in Strategy, Tactics (Not reserved for ACM) and immersion beyond that of the cockpit.

There's no way in my mind, these 2 factions will ever see eye to eye.

We had a similar problem in Ultima Online, and this may be a warning to AH. You had 2 camps there. Those who wanted to decorate their houses, and hunt animals with no chance of being Player Killed, and those that wanted the balls out thrill of fighting, losing it all, or wining it all.

UO made 2 servers. One never allowed Player Vs. Player combat. The other was totally inhabited by Super PLayer Killers. There was no middle ground.

Their subscriptions plummeted. I sold my account on E-bay after 4 years of playing.

Tread Lightly, HTC.

Offline lazs2

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just an idea
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2002, 09:50:58 AM »
muck... the difference is that some element of the game that you are not interested in (fluffs) can easily take away yours (and many others) choices in a single stroke and they can do it with no more talent than it takes to start up solitare.   Worse...  your only defense against this intrusion is to play their game which you chose to igniore in the first place..

no matter how you cut it... it is simply fluffers coming up with ideas to force people to play with them.... My plane choices would rarely be limited by such actions but.... a good percentage of fighter only guys would log long before I was affected  (why close the -1a or Fm2 factory?)...  you think night time causes people to log off ?   imagine when they can't have the only plane that they think they have a fighting chance in?
lazs

Offline Turbot

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just an idea
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2002, 10:17:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by palef
AW used to do that for Spitfires.

Now there's an idea :)

palef


Yep and it worked fine, and (despite laz2's opinion on such things)it worked fine for years.   There is still quite a difference between a tried and tested idea (a fact) and an opinion, though some will try very hard to convince you otherwise.

Offline Turbot

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just an idea
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2002, 10:21:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
This is not an idea for Buffs. This is an idea for everyone seeking a little more of a challenge.


I bet Ripsnort, Fariz, etal would enjoy having other targets as well for, another of laz2's favorites, missions (but then we wouldn't have missions either if up to him).  :)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2002, 10:56:13 AM by Turbot »

Offline muckmaw

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just an idea
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2002, 10:32:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
muck... the difference is that some element of the game that you are not interested in (fluffs) can easily take away yours (and many others) choices in a single stroke and they can do it with no more talent than it takes to start up solitare.   Worse...  your only defense against this intrusion is to play their game which you chose to igniore in the first place..

no matter how you cut it... it is simply fluffers coming up with ideas to force people to play with them.... My plane choices would rarely be limited by such actions but.... a good percentage of fighter only guys would log long before I was affected  (why close the -1a or Fm2 factory?)...  you think night time causes people to log off ?   imagine when they can't have the only plane that they think they have a fighting chance in?
lazs


Once again, Lazs, I disagree. Of course, You disagree in a much more colorful and derogatory way than I do, but I respect your opinion none the less.

Imagine for a moment, there were no heavy bombers in this game. Now imagine the idea put forward in this thread was implimented. You would see Jabo's bombing the factories due to the lack of heavies. Would you still be against the idea?

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2002, 10:35:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Turbot
I bet Ripsnort, Fariz, etal would enjoy having other targets as well for another of laz2's favorites, missions (but then we wouldn't have missions either if up to him :) ).


From what I gathered over my time here, the perfect game for Lazs would be:

15 bases within 3 Miles of each other, all on top of 20K mountains, with no bombers, no gvs, No bombs, indestructable fields. Translation: WWII Quake.

I wonder if he'd want "Power Ups" and shields as well? (Scary part is, I'm dead serious)

Offline Shiva

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just an idea
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2002, 11:31:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shane
apples and oranges.  *You* got yourself killed so *you* lost your armor.

would you have liked the idea of some raiding party attacking a forge in the rear lines making *your* armor disappear or your weapons less effective when you're miles away from that "factory" engaged in a heated battle with some Orcs?


I'm sorry, but it's your analogy that doesn't work. A proper one would be going out, fighting a bunch of battles, and coming back to find that the weapons stores are running low on arrows, and won't sell you as many as you want to fill your quiver, because a raid on the fletchers' village killed most of the fletchers, and there aren't enough arrows to go around for all the people that want them. Or going out to fight, getting killed, resurrect naked in your home, and then be unable to buy the suit of armor you want to replace the one you lost, because the armorers' village was raided.

When someone destroys the La-7 factory, the La-7 your flying doesn't magically vanish beneath you -- you can still fly, and fight, and land and rearm then take off again, but if you get shot down, you lose your plane, and may not get a new one.

The one hole with this is that there is no mechanism for fixing a plane that you bring back damaged. Perhaps a mechanism via the rearm pad where for each 30 seconds you stay on the pad, one red-tagged damage item is repaired, and if you have no red-tagged damage, 30 seconds repairs all the fractional damage on your plane. Or just allow you to take off in the same plane type you brought back if you land or ditch your plane at a field, regardless of the availability of that plane type. That would give people an incentive to try to drag damaged planes back home, knowing that if they can get it home, they can keep flying it, but if they crash or bail, they might not be able to get one.

Maybe a modified form of aircraft availability would be more viable. Set each airfield up with a 'stock level' based on the field size -- 5 for small fields, 10 for medium fields, 15 for large fields -- and then drive aircraft availability off of usage. In the rear areas of each country are a number of aircraft factories. Under normal conditions, planes are supplied to fields as fast as they are requested, but when a factory is destroyed, a random plane from the planeset is selected, and that plane is put on allocation -- one plane per minute is delivered to each field, up to the 'stock limit' of the field. If the same plane is randomly picked more than once, the allocation interval increases -- one every two minutes, every three minutes, etc.

Tying the 'stock limit' to the number of functioning hangars at a field would provide a mechanism to produce incremental damage to the availability of aircraft, but I think that it would overly bias the ability for a country to defend or attack if their rear area gets overrun -- when an enemy country can milkrun to keep factories bombed flat, letting them further beat down plane availability allows them to steamroller fields much faster. Some people might regard this as a good thing, but I suspect that it would result in many more people logging in disgust once their rear areas got overrun and damage to their fields kept them from mounting defenses.

Offline Apache

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just an idea
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2002, 11:43:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
From what I gathered over my time here, the perfect game for Lazs would be:

15 bases within 3 Miles of each other, all on top of 20K mountains, with no bombers, no gvs, No bombs, indestructable fields. Translation: WWII Quake.

I wonder if he'd want "Power Ups" and shields as well? (Scary part is, I'm dead serious)


You don't know Lazs as well as you think you do.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2002, 11:43:18 AM »
muck... yes I would still be against the idea..  it makes a lopsided game even more so and forces a certain type of gameplay that is of little interest to people who can only play an hour or two at a time.   Like I said... it probly wouldn't affect me personally since I fly mediocre planes mostly in any case but why should I advocate lopsided gameplay?
lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2002, 11:48:53 AM »
muck... if the fluffers had large cities to carpet bomb and.... killing said cities would "win the war" then.... jabos would have little effect on said cities... it would take a fluff to get the job done.   If a person cared not about winning the war he could simply ignore that aspect and still have a good time without some pasty faced mouse weilder who has been online for 10 hours straight, ruining some aspect or another of his game.   If... OTOH, fighters wanted to participate in the "winning" of the war they could up and try to stop the fluffs.   Everyone would have a realistic role with as little gamyness as possible even considering the inherant gamyness of fluffs...   No one would be impacting the others game in a lopsided manner.

It would be fair and fun for all... but somehow... I don't think that is what you are after.
lazs

Offline muckmaw

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just an idea
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2002, 11:53:31 AM »
I'm scratching my head here, Shiva....but I think I like your idea.

We actually talked about this before.

I love the rearm-repair thing. I think this would also help solve our suicide Jabo Problem.

If a pilot knows he may not be able to get his ride of choice back if he plows into a hangar, he's much more inclined to bring the plane home...or at least try to.

I hate to say it, but I doubt you'll ever see a system like this implimented.

I'm in favor of anything that represents a challenge, creates immersion, and brings AH one step closer to the real thing.

Offline texace

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just an idea
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2002, 12:38:33 PM »
Ya know...I find myself agreeing with Shiva on his idea. It's practical, it's useful, and it adds immersion to the game.

As wacky as it sounds, it adds raelism as well. Planes didn't magically appear for you to use...they had the be built and shipped. If the planes couldn't be built, the planes couldn't be shipped. So let's say a Spit factory was destroyed, but everyone from the country/field kept using and destroying Spitfires. Eventually the supply of planes would run out and the Spits couldn't be used until the factory cuold be rebuilt. Am I right, Shiva?

To me, this is not a way for the buff pilots to make everyone play their way. A factory destroyed would not instantly forbid use of a plane...it would stop shipment and allow the supply to run out. Buffers aren't forcing someone to play thier way, they are affecting the war like they are supposed to. With the bombsight as it is and the damage set so high, a single lone buffer could not destroy a factory on its own. It would require a hugh formation to carpet bomb the factory. So much for the single no-talant fluffer runing the fun for everyone.

Another thing we could implament is that airfields must rely on the trains and trucks to deliver the planes to the fields, so the supply is constantly running out. If you destroy a train, a shipment doesn't arrive. This would promote hunting the trains and trucks as well. However, this would mean that fighters could still takeoff without the hangers, but would you risk a limited supply of fighters if the factory is destroyed?

I never understood how a single "fluffer" could ruin the fun of "everyone" when it's usually jabos and fighters that destroy hangers and factories. :confused:

Oh well...great idea Shiva!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2002, 12:41:18 PM by texace »

Offline Innominate

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just an idea
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2002, 12:42:38 PM »
Having a setup that allows bad pilots dying to hurt the availability for everyone else is a bad idea.  Any kind of plane limitations should be done on a per-user basis.  (i.e. you have x la7's available, if you die you lose one, if you run out before they rebuild, you gotta pay a perk price, or move onto a different plane)

Instead of a per-field or per-country hangar, it should be per-user.

Offline T0J0

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just an idea
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2002, 12:52:17 PM »
I cast a vote for a Big huge pizza factory in the center of the pizza map if the buffs destroy it then the Pizza map gets taken outta rotation for a month....Or three...
 Something liike that?

T0J0

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2002, 12:53:15 PM »
Good Point, Innominate.

We have enough problems with spies as it is. With a setup like the one proposed, all I have to do is set up a second account, go to the enemy field I want to sabotage, and lawndart all the hot-rides. Boom...no more late war planes for the enemy.

Of course, I would not do this, but you KNOW someone would...