Author Topic: Death Penalty... yes or no? (Read 2785 times)

Thrawn · « **Reply #45 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:08:33 AM »

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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
So, you guys are against the death penalty for convicted fetus'?

LMAO!!!

miko2d · « **Reply #46 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:26:33 AM »

Thrawn: If the death penalty is a deterant, why don't the states with capital punishment have the lowest incidence of homocides?

Are all the other conditions equal? Could it be that the states have death penalty because they have high incidence of homicides to start with?

Eagler: After that, it ain't her call.
Law enforcement is a society matter and is intended to protect the members of society.
Abortion is a family matter and the fetus is not a member of society. Killing a fetus against mother's wishes is not a homicide though there is no reason for that crime to carry similar punishment.
Whatever our feeings about barbaric practice, we should have no say in it.

In non-oppressive society the government only has powers that members surrendered to it in the matters that affect others.
Why would a family surrender their power/right over their fetus? Exercising it in no way affects any other member of the society.
Of course in an oppressive society it's a matter of taste for whoever is in power - including voters - whether it's "her call" or not in being forced to continue pregnancy or being subjected to forced abortion etc.
Self-righteous people tend to confuse morals with laws - of course they have the excuse - their God told them so.

miko

Kieran · « **Reply #47 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:36:26 AM »

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Yer a dolt if you are trying to get a connection between the death penalty and abortions.

Ditto if you can't see the connection.

Honestly, I understand society will always allow abortions, and since I like living in this society I will live with it. OTOH, I don't believe they are morally right. As for executions for criminals convicted of capital crimes, yeah, I am for it if there is overwhelming proof of guilt. Timothy McVeigh, anyone? Jeffrey Dahmer?

Oh... the connection? They are both concerned with taking life. I know it is more convenient to not consider fetuses alive, but... they are.

Thrawn · « **Reply #48 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:37:16 AM »

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Originally posted by miko2d
Thrawn: If the death penalty is a deterant, why don't the states with capital punishment have the lowest incidence of homocides?

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Are all the other conditions equal? Could it be that the states have death penalty because they have high incidence of homicides to start with?

Lazs was the person who said it WAS a deterrant. I then questioned that statement as it seemed that if it was a deterrant then it wasn't very effective

Your statement still doesn't support Lazs's statement that capital punishment is a deterrant. Nor has it yet been proved at all.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #49 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:46:26 AM »

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Originally posted by Kieran
Oh... the connection? They are both concerned with taking life. I know it is more convenient to not consider fetuses alive, but... they are.

A lot of things are alive. toejam, everything is alive.

Go cry about those trees that died for your paper. Those animals that suffer/died for your soap/cosmetics. Those insects that die because of those bug zappers.

There is no connection between the death penalty and abortion, the only connection is invented by those who oppose one or the other and decide to go hippy and join the two together to further "strengthen" their resolve.

Shit ain't gonna fly with me. I didn't buy this "abortion is murder" crap when I was fed it in school, and I don't buy it now.
-SW

mrfish · « **Reply #50 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:51:56 AM »

yes death penalty and yes abortions, both performed summarily and without a bunch of fanfare i might add.

they both have tough consequences but life's just like that. nature is just as tough on the lions who can't afford to wait up for old 'gimpy' who can't land any impala kills any more.

we don't need the weight of unwanted kids and adults who can't ever seem to learn to play along, we could direct more of our resources to meaningful pursuits. there isn't always a sunshine solution to everything, just buck up and get over it.

it's hard to believe that these are such perennially hot topics considering how many relevant things we could be worrying about.

Kieran · « **Reply #51 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:55:45 AM »

I stand corrected, SW. Human fetuses aren't people by your definition, totally understand you. I differ in opinion.

Eagler · « **Reply #52 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:57:15 AM »

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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
A lot of things are alive. toejam, everything is alive.

Go cry about those trees that died for your paper. Those animals that suffer/died for your soap/cosmetics. Those insects that die because of those bug zappers.

There is no connection between the death penalty and abortion, the only connection is invented by those who oppose one or the other and decide to go hippy and join the two together to further "strengthen" their resolve.

Shit ain't gonna fly with me. I didn't buy this "abortion is murder" crap when I was fed it in school, and I don't buy it now.
-SW

animals kingdom = human babies ???

so your "new" girl-friend tells you she is pregnant tonite.
what do you do, slip her $1000 and tell her to take care of it? wait til she mentions it and offer to kick in half???

abortion is murder, buy it or not - go check the trash at your local womans clinic & tell me they weren't living human beings before the vacumn sucked them out.

any of you pro choicers care to admit you've already paid for one?
Or is the shame alittle too much.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #53 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:58:08 AM »

Question then, how can you kill something that doesn't know it's alive?
-SW

Thrawn · « **Reply #54 on:** November 19, 2002, 11:59:06 AM »

Nice attitude, life sucks because life sucks and we shouldn't try and stop it from sucking. That just sounds lazy.

Thrawn · « **Reply #55 on:** November 19, 2002, 12:05:30 PM »

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Originally posted by Eagler
animals kingdom = human babies ???

Hey Eagler, humans are part of the animal kingdom, unless you think we are fungi, plants or single cell organisms.

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abortion is murder, buy it or not - go check the trash at your local womans clinic & tell me they weren't living human beings before the vacumn sucked them out.

Abortion isn't murder, hell it's not even illegal.

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any of you pro choicers care to admit you've already paid for one?
Or is the shame alittle too much.

Propably more like, none of your damn business. But I'm not surprised you would ask, after all your trying to stick your nose into other womens business.

Tumor · « **Reply #56 on:** November 19, 2002, 12:07:18 PM »

Yes... Kill'em all, make room for more!

Eagler · « **Reply #57 on:** November 19, 2002, 12:10:11 PM »

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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Question then, how can you kill something that doesn't know it's alive?
-SW

have you asked a fetus, did one tell you it doesn't know?
It has brain activity, heart beat, response to stimulus...

Have you ever been through a pregnancy with a woman, everyday for nine+ months?

Thrawn
I ask the question not to pry just to illustrate the fact that it is a dark dirty little secret for even those that are "for it".

If it is just another "freedom", why the shame?

Kieran · « **Reply #58 on:** November 19, 2002, 12:11:31 PM »

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Question then, how can you kill something that doesn't know it's alive?

Good question. Ask someone in a coma.

hardcase · « **Reply #59 on:** November 19, 2002, 12:24:41 PM »

Any society that kills its prisoners is flawed. BTW..look at the countries that still have it on their books. It is not company any advanced society would want to be seen with.