Author Topic: This note will proberly piss alot of you off  (Read 779 times)

Offline Obear

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« on: July 21, 2000, 06:25:00 AM »
Ok, im putting myself in the firing line here, judging by the large AH community that's out there, but i have a gripe about this game and i need to give it a darn good airing cos its beginning to smell a bit.

Its a long story so kick back, crack open a cold one and i will tell you a story.

Few years back the first online game i played was Warbirds and almost immediately i was hooked. Here was a game that supplied me with allot of my interests and hobbies, i love to fly and take to the air as often as i can and my inherited love and interest of WW2 aircraft from my father who was in the RAF inevitably drew me to this game and i fell madly and head over heals in love with it (we are now getting married in the Autum and are planning a few kids later)

This was so great, a large online community and the enjoyment of flying with like minded pals from all over the globe...DARN COOL

a few years later and i stumbled across AH. I downloaded the game and started it up, logged on for the free 2 week trial and begain flying.

WOW !!!! WOW !!!! WOW !!!!

I thought WB's did a pretty good job with the aircraft modelling and landscaping but this game was just so much better.
The aircraft were far more detailed
The landscape was to die for on an on line sim
The cannon fire was no longer red and yellow lines but real looking cannons with translucent tracer !!!!!
The game play had even more depth and the bases and fields look far better and more detailed.
Tanks and AA trucks Cool!!!!!
Little touches like the landing gear actually slowly retracting instead of just disappearing.
Sounds, just so much better, like the real thing, engines splutter and crank into life instead of the normal brrrrrrrrrrrr!!
VR cockpits, etc., with pan and snap options!!
My god, i thought i was in heaven, good bye Warbirds and farewell, you are good but never this good.

Then i played the game.

At first i thought it was me and that a new flight engine would take a bit of time to get used to, but no.

Oh sure i got the hang of it ok, and im no amateur when it comes to flying. I fly for real and i know all about torque, etc.

I know how and when to used rudder, flaps and just about everything else, but the game just seemed so flawed.

With all the great touches it offered over and above WB's it is let down by the shear unplayability of the game.

OK ill stop now, i know there are probably a few hundred of you out there playing this game every day screeming at me and think its the best thing since sliced bread, but it would be so much better if it didn't have such a steep learning curve.

It basically boils down to the dogfighting. It is not as enjoyable nor as fast and furious as WB's. You fly for what seems ages, you see a con and your up high, turn into his 6 and swoop down for the kill. Ok now he is better than you and manages to manoeuvre with minimal damage out of your line of sight. So you power away and swing in for another kill, again you over shoot, that's ok but the second time you come to turn the stall horn sounds like a dyeing whale and if you don't turn with the minimal of stick movement your sent spinning to the ground. BOOM

Now like i say, i know all about the aerodynamics of aircraft and i am sure that HI TECH and the gang know there beans when it comes to a realistic flight sim.
But for myself, and i know many others, this is just no fun at all. It may well be the most realistic flight engine around, but that's just it, this is not real, its a game, and we have no input on our senses other than sight as to what our aircraft is doing.
There's no G force and although the sounds are far superior to WB's the engine pitch hardly changes weather your barley above stall speed or close to ripping the wings from your plane. Realistic maybe, but that's no good when your 1000 feet and have no bearings weather your going slow or fast. Yes, i know there is a speed indicator in the cockpit but who wants to spend all the time checking his dials when your in a dogfight. No sensory input means you need to make slight inaccurate changes in a game like this for everyone to enjoy.

I know i will get a barrel load of 'Sod of back to WB's if you don't like it' and 'call yourself a pilot? i have no problems'

But that's just it, id rather go with AH as it is a brilliant step further than WB's

I have tried, i wanted so badly to love this game like i do WB's i wanted to pay the Monthly fee and bask in this games glory. But i cant, because to me (and i know allot of other who have tried this game) the gameplay take away the enjoyment of getting in there and having fun.

If the Flight engine was a little more friendly so ALL could adapt to it, i think the WB's community would drop and AH would have to set up another server to cater for the extra players.

I do not say this game is crap, nor bad. It is an excellent achievement that no doubt took many hours of dedicated programing. I just wish it was as easy to love as WB's

Isn't there a chance for a relaxed arena, with a little less 'IN YOUR FACE' learning curve? somewhere were you could fly for few mins, have a blast, without checking your dials every min?  ohh well i know ill get a pasting for this but until AH becomes more USER FRIENDLY i cannot justify the monthly outgoing for a game that is for the best part infuriating to play, and i know of many many others who like me were taken back by the games outlook and disapointed at the actual flight charateristics.

Ok i have said my 2 bucks worth.

<Braces himself for an onslaught of outrage by AH community>


Offline Downtown

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
      • http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2000, 06:32:00 AM »
I think Pyro said a while back that there would be some further allowances for game play.  I then promptly asked or a "Extreme Arena" where there wasn't any artificial assistance.  Only like two people responded they they wanted a more challenging arena with a higher rate of difficulty, so I don't see you getting slammed too badly.  I guess more people do want (excuse the expression) dumbing down of the game.  I personally prefer a challenge so a more difficult FM is my cup of tea.

All that talk was brought about by iEN disabling easymode in the main.

------------------

"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

Offline Duckwing6

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 324
      • http://www.pink.at
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2000, 06:48:00 AM »
funny thing is that i always found the WB FM harder to fly than the AHs.. well didn't fly WB a lot because i was repeled by the impossible 6 view of my HOG -> i didn't find the fights faster and furioser than in AH either cause i tended to fly to the general direction of where the fight was supposed to be and usually gt jumped and killed by some high con i never ever saw.

Well my Point is:

Keep trying ! AH has a lot to offer as soon as you got over the first "ridge" in the learning curve..

Offline gatt

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2441
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2000, 07:03:00 AM »
Obear,
I understand you. After 4 years of WB I switched to AH and my first three beta TOD have been a nitemare.
I took a look to your stats and I saw that you only flew in TOD#4 (some 83 sorties in fighters). It is not enuff. AH has a steeper learning curve than WB. AH arena requires a more historical way of fighting as well. Sometimes is boring to spend 10-15 minutes only to get to operational altitude from a rear base, but I prefer it.
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Maniac

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3817
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2000, 07:06:00 AM »
Perhaps what you are looking for is Fighter Ace! Go check it out, it got very nice eye candy effects and an dumbed down FE!!

If anything i want the game to be even harder then it is now....

Best move WBs done in an couple years was to remove the Easy mode in the main arena methinks.

Oh almost forgot! have you been to the training arena yet? obviously you are doing something wrong....

Regards.


------------------
AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

 
   
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 07-21-2000).]
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac

Offline Wanker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4030
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2000, 07:15:00 AM »
Hiya Obear. First of all, you managed to express your diappointment in a mature and honest way. I salute you for that.

I, too, came from the ranks of Warbirds. And I, too, had a somewhat lengthy learning curve  with the AH flight model. But after giving it about a month, I felt completely at home with it. In fact, I now find Warbirds' flight modeling to be a bit arcadish compared to AH.

Make no mistake, Aces High, with it's late war plane set, is not a turn-N-burn paradise. It's all about energy fighting. You must manage your energy very carefully if you want to win a fight. I've had some fantastic one-on-one fights in AH, but they were more like chess matches, instead of a "crank-n-bank" fight.

To be sure, this style of fighting is not everyone's cup of tea. But for me, the extra features that AH had over WB(zoom key, customizable views, drop tanks, ground vehicles) makes it worth the effort to learn a new way to fight.

You're not alone. We've seen some WB people come over here, all excited about AH, only to leave after a short time. On the other hand, a large number of WB people have come over to AH and have stayed for good.

I hope you decide to stay. Good luck!  

------------------
P/O banana
XO 308(Polish) Sqn "City of Cracow" RAF

Offline Obear

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2000, 07:39:00 AM »
4 postings in 1 hour that's good thanks.

Firstly in reply to maniacs suggestion of flying in Fighter Ace, i have played that game off line and its not my cup of tea.
Any game that you can dogfight in a lancaster bomber is poor show.
That game the flight engine is far inferior for my liking and takes away the enjoyment of the game (kinda picky arnt i, there's no pleasing some people)

I always played WB's with easy flight turned off and i found the relaxed play a little to simplistic.
I am no quake head who wants to FRAG everybody insight and use no method or strategy to my game.
I know all about gaining alt and not spending to much of your power constantly turning into your enemy. My point was that AH seems to take the realistics of flight to the extream and as i think banana (funny name for someone who writes such mature and educated responces lol) writes, the game play is more kindred to a chess game.

I know everyone has a different perspective on how they wish to play there game, and it is hard, maybe impossible to cater for everyone's needs. But i really do think that if the game (or an arena of the game) was to be toned down a little to allow the less 'patient' or 'quick to learn' players a chance to play the game, enjoy there time here and submit for the monthly charge, and then maybe after a while of actually enjoying there learning curve online can then make the jump to the normal arena.

if this was to take effect it would defiantly get my vote.


Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10165
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2000, 07:42:00 AM »
I have figured this much out:

AcesHigh plays you, not the other way around.
You have to let yourself go, become one with the force.

I often think about going back and trying WBs out but I always end up taking the more difficult path.  Perhaps its because I still havent mastered AH.  The challenge keeps me interested.

Yeager

------------------
 

[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 07-21-2000).]
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline JimBear

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 677
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2000, 07:47:00 AM »
A good thoughtfull post. I have seen half my old squad m8s try and move away from AH because of the very reasons you say. I was sorry to see them move on but could respect their decision. That said, the only thing that could possibly upset me with your post is if HTC went and created an "easymode" to give people some Lite version of the flight model.  Give it another try, maybe after stepping away from it, you will find it more approachable.

Offline Gunthr

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
      • http://www.dot.squat
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2000, 07:50:00 AM »
Hi Obear,

I teetered on the fence between WB and AH for months, probably because I was trying to fly both sims at the same time.

If you are doing that, it really impedes the acquisition of the seat-of-the-pants reprograming that has to take place. Its almost like a paradigm shift.

It was a leap of faith to jump in with both feet, but I did it even though I liked the WB flight model better at the time. I came over mostly because of the excellent value and service.

Now, I love the AH flight model.  
 
$.02

 

http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm"" TARGET=_blank>332nd Flying Mongrels

"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Maniac

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3817
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2000, 07:52:00 AM »
Obear,

Im all for an easy mode arena, as long as they dont mix easy mode and real mode into the same arena as they did in WBs..

And i also want to repeat that the AH plane set is more towards the BnZ type of fighting..

What ACīs do you fly?

Also you can always go back to WBs if you cant get used to the FMs here, after all eyecandy doesnt mean squat, and WBs aint an bad sim at all.....

Regards.

------------------
AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-


   
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac

Offline Ghosth

  • AH Training Corps (retired)
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8497
      • http://332nd.org
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2000, 08:00:00 AM »
Obear,
Like you I came here from Warbirds, (4 years there give or take a month).

I've been here since midbeta and I'm still struggling some days. Yes AH has a very tight flight model, stalls still seem to happen too soon. Energy conservation is drasticly different here than anything else I've seen.

However, you'll find me in here every day working on it. Gone are the easy days of Turn & burn, position, alt & E management are crucial. Flying with a wingman certainly helps.

Also, IMO the average skill level in AH is much higher than anything I've seen before.

Heres hopeing you'll rise to the challenge.
Like anything else, the harder you work for success the sweeter it is when you finally attain it.


Offline Gremlin

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1909
      • http://www.webtreatz.com/tod/lognew.html
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2000, 08:19:00 AM »
Salute, to all thats been said here!  I remember the first time I logged AH, I was ready to kill everything in sight until I made my first turn, and of course I promptly stalled and crashed.  Now, I thought I would never get used to this, but the best thing about AH for me was actually learning to cope with the FM and using it to my advantage. I would hope that HTC went down the line of making the AH fm as close to the real thing as is possible.  I'm far to young to remember WW2 so what I'm really after is to find out what it was like for real WW2 pilots.  For that reason I would be against a relaxed arena.  I think warbirds is great if thats what you want.  But I really think that the people who have stuck with AH, do so because, they enjoy the learning curve, and take great satisfaction when they start to see results.   One major gripe though.  Most newbies learn to fly in TA complete with F3 view, unlimited fuel etc, the when I comes to MA time, they're lost,  why don't HTC get rid of that damn F3 view altogether, and make the TA the same as the MA?

  All,

Grem.

Offline popeye

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3605
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2000, 08:22:00 AM »
You're right, E management is the name of the game in AH.  Here are some tips:

Be sure to scale your joystick to allow for fine control of the plane.

Try to keep your plane trimmed.  This will keep the joystick near the center and allow for fine control.

Think about lag pursuit.  If you can maintain an E advantage, the angles will come later.

Keep the ball centered.  AH planes burn a LOT of E in slip.  Glancing at the slip indicator  during a fight will help you develop a feel for the rudders.

Resist the temptation to yank and bank.  Keep it smooth.  Lag.  Roll.  Find maneuvers that retain E.

Develop an awareness of your E relative to the other guy.  When you sense that you are about to lose the advantage, find the moment to abandon the fight.

Use vertical maneuvers.  Try to avoid flat turns and nose down maneuvers.

Use wind noise to give you a sense of your airspeed.  Go to Setup/Sound and turn the wind sound all the way up.  If it's not loud enough, use the Windows utility to increase the wind.wav volume.  If it's still not loud, turn all the other sounds down a bit.

When you disengage from a fight, use zero-G dive to maximize E.

Set up some time in the TA with a trainer.  Repeating the same plane/E/position setups can help you tune your game.

popeye


[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 07-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 07-21-2000).]
KONG

Where is Major Kong?!?

Offline Westy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2871
This note will proberly piss alot of you off
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2000, 08:23:00 AM »
 Not a flame nor sarcasm - but there's a bit of irony in my eyes to see a post that could so easily have been written by a FA/AW 'pilot' about trying to fly WB's. Just just the sim names around.

 I myself find that some nights here I'm on golden wings. And others, like last night, I'm cannon fodder for anyone who sneezes.
 
  -Westy