Mr. Toad!
Thank you for your lengthy post. I read every word, and followed up on the links you supplied. I know it’s a time consuming business to compose posts like this, so I appreciate your time and effort. On a minor point –
Some, like Beetle, propose licensing/registration/banning/confiscation of firearms.
I don’t think I ever said that. Indeed I distinctly remember saying to Lazs that I wasn’t trying to take away his guns. But I am at least allowed to hold an opinion.
US crime is down on what it was, but it has to be said that the US crime rate had further to fall. Whereas the firearms related homicide statistic in E&W has never been more than a double digit value, in the US for many years it was a 5 digit value.
We are agreed that crime has fallen sharply in the US. I have pointed out the example in New York. Originally you said “New York has nothing to do with it”, until I pointed out that the NYC population is about 8% of the population nationwide.
The difficulty in Britain is that we have overcrowded, 19th century jails. There is pressure on the powers that be to avoid custodial sentencing for serious but relatively minor crimes so that prison accommodation can be reserved for even more serious cases. As Dowding pointed out some weeks ago now, Britain has become too soft on criminals. Even some murderers have been released after an outrageously brief sentence. This policy is dangerous for two reasons: Violent criminals end up back on the streets, and prospective criminals see no deterrent to their wrongdoings. If there has been any increase in crime in recent years in Britain, I believe it is because of
this, and not because of more/less firearms or changes in gun control laws.
In the US, you have a death penalty in most states, longer sentencing for serious crimes, and a more modern prison system. If only Britain could have these things, I believe our own crime rate would plummet.
To keep this as brief as possible, I would just like to focus on Philadelphia’s
Operation Cease Fire. The particular passage which caught my eye was this.
Since January 1999, the federally funded Operation Cease Fire program has hauled more than 300 of Philadelphia’s most egregious gun offenders off the streets and into federal court. In 1999 alone, gun possession indictments by the U.S. Attorney’s Office here more than quintupled from 1998. Out of 173 gun cases disposed of, only one defendant was acquitted, while 149 others simply pleaded guilty and went straight to federal prison.
We are already agreed that it’s not gun ownership by guys like yourself and Lazs that presents a risk. The main areas of crime are the poor ethnic communities – the sort of places that the subject, Gerald Smith, would hang out. Clearly what has had the most dramatic effect on Philadelphia gun crime is the quintupling of gun possession indictments 1998-1999. One assumes that not only is the offender banged up in federal prison, but his guns are taken off the street. In other words, a gun-toting nut is disarmed, banged up, and the result is fewer guns on the street and less crime. Isn’t this what I’ve been saying all along? What would have been the effect on the level of crime if Philadelphia City Hall had simply shrugged, and advised ordinary law abiding citizens to go out and buy guns? That would have been much cheaper for the City to implement, but they didn’t do that because they knew that was not the answer and would not have reduced crime in the problem areas. No, crime has been reduced by the correct deployment of law enforcement, with very tough sentences on offenders. Same thing in New York. Wait a minute... it IS what I’ve been saying all along! Mr. Toad, if the Philadelphia article is a reflection of your opinion, then I think we’re in agreement, even if we’ve come at this situation from opposite sides. The question remains: What travesty of gun control/licensing ever allowed Gerald Smith (and thousands like him) to be in possession of guns in the first place?
And *THAT* is the problem that needs to be addressed.
To Mr. Toad, Lazs, BBM, GTO, Saburo et al, read my lips! Your country allows you to have guns – so be it. Keep your guns. You are not the problem. But for John & Jane Doe to buy a gun to store in a cupboard accumulating cobwebs is not the solution to a problem which in all probability exists many miles away, and needs to be tackled by law enforcement, as in Philadelphia, New York and other major US cities.
