Gaming the game... a new episode

[Saintaw]

Hehehehe, I just think of those poor sods to whom it must have taken hours to get up to that height  

Anyway, Bee sent me some evidence to post, here it is :
 http://saintaw.tripod.com/ahss30.jpg

Saw
Imnomine et Spiritus sanctis, Aaaaameeeen etc...

[Ash]

I think Buffs can climb to the moon if they wish, but at 35K+, they should not be able to pin point bomb anything. I chased after the last of the Bish Buffs, got in front and co-alt of it at 37K, but just could not keep my G10 up on my attack run. I personally think Climbing out is a good escape Defense for a buffs. However, I think bombing accuracy should be significantly diminished once over 25Kft. < I also think once those 88's show up there will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the buff community>


OTR,
     Ash
     I./JG-2

[Fury]

 

Originally posted by Ash:
..............I also think once those 88's show up there will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the buff community>
OTR,
     Ash
     I./JG-2

Yea, I agree.  Once those 88mm show their pinpoint accuracy to 35k we'll have the buffers all screaming that there is no way that ack can be that accurate that high.  One more thing to b* about  

Fury
(nothing against buffers, I'm one myself)


[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 06-09-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by leonid:
BEE,
I think a big reason why B-17s didn't fly at such altitudes was the effect it had on the exposed crewmen.  

I Propose that HTC send out an air conditioning unit that drops room temperature to -60 below(F) to simulate what those crews went thru!  

[Pongo]

Dingy.
Where the numbers you mentioned befor or after the bish dar went down? I remember the numbers being pretty even and then the bish bailed when their dar went down.
I remember being involved in a 6 buffs raid on bish HQ and fatty shooting down half of us in a 1c....Of course we didnt have field 1 to launch from.
The stratos buffs are lame. Especialy when a pack of them do it. There is no corrolation between the knight raids that took place at 17k and some stratosdweebs that are just out to have a "Chat" and further suppress a county that is allready gangbanged. Go chat on rw somewhere else. If you want to simulate satalites for your 30$ then simulate benevolent ones.
What we need is ME163 sites at HQ only.....


------------------
"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by Saintaw:
Hehehehe, I just think of those poor sods to whom it must have taken hours to get up to that height  

Anyway, Bee sent me some evidence to post, here it is :
 http://saintaw.tripod.com/ahss30.jpg

Saw
Imnomine et Spiritus sanctis, Aaaaameeeen etc...

Evidence!??  LOL!  I dont think anyone really doubts that it happened Saw    

-Ding

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
Dingy.
Where the numbers you mentioned befor or after the bish dar went down? I remember the numbers being pretty even and then the bish bailed when their dar went down.

The stratos buffs are lame. Especialy when a pack of them do it. There is no corrolation between the knight raids that took place at 17k and some stratosdweebs that are just out to have a "Chat" and further suppress a county that is allready gangbanged.

Nope.  Bish were outnumbered for at least an hour before this happened.  Its why the fighters and buffs were able to get to target without any resistence.

As for your comment regarding the dissimilarity between stratodweebs (as you call it) and the Knight raids that occurred at 17K, I COMPLETELY disagree.  The common denominator is that a countries dar went down with no hope of defending it.  I think thats clear enough isnt it?

-Ding

[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 06-09-2000).]

[JENG]

I'm sorry for being aggrivated yesterday, I'm sorry for posting this topic... I'm very sorry for rantin on open channel and calling people dweebs... I normaly don't do that.

Thing is I was just upset yesterday, Ash called out the bombergroup when they were over Field 28 (still far away from our HQ) I was at the time in a N1K and tried to climb up   Not a good thing to do... by the time I was at the alt the screenshot was taken my Shiden was realy gasping for air   (IAS 155 mph  )  

I know the max operating ceiling of a B17G is 35600 feet. The max operating ceiling of the N1K2 Shiden is 41010 feet.(look at the pic... I don't think I would have ever gotten there). Thing is for an effective attackrun a fighter needs to manouvre to an extend (avoiding guns) and get above and in front of the buff. This is very difficult at extreme alts, the buff however can just fly straight or make very gentle turns and ping ya with his .50's.

However this being said, I'm sorry bash, jolly for my outbreak yesterday. I'm under alot of stress (thesis work) and when I saw the attack and could do nothing about it I just cracked. <S> to you and your squad for a fine performed buffrun.

BEE
PS: I don't think the my country is gangbanged issue has anything to do with this topic, I mean come on guys every country is gangbanged (remember 2 days ago, when bish were attacking 28 in numbers and rooks were getting 26, 25, 31, etc)

[SFRT - Frenchy]

at 35K, I don't think 88 should be so accurate that the buff formation suffers heavy losses. Off course, it can be damaged. I think that what should be modeled more than ripping buff wings is 'turbulences', it will be fun for 'sensation of flying thru an ack barrage' but also those turbulences should throw the 'aircross aim' just enought to not allow an accurate 35K drop.

What u guys think of that?

[Ghosth]

The way I see it there are 2 solutions for this problem. They'd work best in combination with each other.

A Wind, preferably prevailing Westerlies 15 mph up to 15k, 25 mph (on a slightly diff vector) over that. Bombs falling from 35K just wouldn't hit the target that often.

B Clouds, thin layers of haze, streamers of intermittant clouds, you name it whatever works. Make it so it's a crap shoot at best if you get a break in the clouds when you need it.

Scattered low clouds  (5 to 10k) along with a
denser layer at 25k say would do a lot to keep buffs down where they are reachable.

I'm not sure how much of this is doable, or if we'll ever see it.

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
at 35K, I don't think 88 should be so accurate that the buff formation suffers heavy losses. Off course, it can be damaged. I think that what should be modeled more than ripping buff wings is 'turbulences', it will be fun for 'sensation of flying thru an ack barrage' but also those turbulences should throw the 'aircross aim' just enought to not allow an accurate 35K drop.

What u guys think of that?

I like that idea Frenchy  

And Bee...you dont need to apologize.  I know the feeling after having gone through a similar situation while pursuinig my Masters degree AND working fulltime on a "software project from hell".  

-Ding

[Minotaur]

After I got the hang of bombing (it took 1 or 2 sorties) my first thought was "This is too FREAKING EASY!".  My bombing accuracy is/was almost 100%.  If I drop on it, it goes away.  

I always felt a hit should be a surprize, but never is.  Only a miss is a surprize.  

I have posted up on this topic many times and is one reason I find so much pleasure in the way certain players detail their bombing prowness, when it is so rediculously easy to do.  

After much re-consideration I began to see the wisdom of "LGB Accuracy", but I never really have bought in to it.  Such is the game and I play it as it is.

Good Luck!  

------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Horsecrap. Sick of hearin it.. "
Hangtime

[Replicant]

Hi all

25,000ft was the optimum altitude for bombing in a B17, it doesn't mean that it is the maximum altitude for bombing in a B17!

I bought a book called the B17 Story, and here is a piece from it:-

"Although Luftwaffe did make successful interceptions, these all occurred at under 30,000ft.  When the B-17s were able to maintain altitudes above this level they evaded interception, the chief obstacle to achieving the desired altitudes being engine problems - noticeably severe oil loss through the breathers."

Okay, this was based on an earlier version of the B17 but seeing the B17 had to travel a very long distance then they had to preserve their engines (unlike in AH where you really don't have to travel that far!).  I agree that the bombsight couldn't have been that accurate at that alt, though I am sure you could hit the HQ easy.  Other people use the 'zoom' function so why complain about the buffs?

As for the high altitude buff run... well, recently I've been flying B17s at 8k to 25k max and on five occasions at 25k (I went that alt after being shot down earlier at lower alt) I've had F4U-Cs high above me, two of them at least 35k no joking - and not just the odd lone fighter but often in pairs or more!  Needless to say that I got shot down.  I enjoy flying lower altitudes because you can normally be in with a good chance of landing some kills as well as bombing your target, but when the HQ requires such a large bomb load are you going to risk one B17 not getting there and then not doing enough damage?

Just some of my thoughts...  I am tempted to start flying higher especially if I've been shot down at 20-25k (!)... I will just return higher if I want to complete a specific mission.  Apparantly 25-30k was enough to evade flak.

I'm all for lower buff runs... but there are somethings that put you off doing that!!  

Regards

'Nexx'

   

[This message has been edited by Replicant (edited 06-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Replicant (edited 06-09-2000).]

[Pongo]

Dinger..
I was on a mission against the bish dar and got shot down at less then 20k. Is that clear. One plane did us in. We slogged at that hq. it took several raids. The guy that intercepted us did a good job. The guys that tried to escort us had their hands full. Comparing that to an unaposble stratosdweeb atack in mass with field 1 and total numerical superioroity is silly. I dont expect you to see that but as someone who participated it was no cake walk. And it was more fun and interesting for both sides.


------------------
"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM

[Swoop]

There's one easy way to stop these damn B17s at 33k.....

more clouds

You cant bomb what you cant see.  If you cant see the target, get lower....below the clouds.


Swoop