Author Topic: Is it a crime to be poor? (Read 1257 times)

gofaster · « **on:** November 25, 2002, 09:20:35 AM »

Should it be a crime to be homeless? Let's face it - most people don't want to buy homes or do business where long-haired, scraggly-bearded bums are shuffling around in dirty clothes and smoking cigarette butts salvaged out of the gutter. These hobos are the living equivalent to abandoned crack houses. They stagnate economic development. Most of them are mentally incapacitated to some degree. So what should be done? Should we let Nature take its course and weed out the weak? What about sanitation and the spread of disease? And property crime? Is there a risk to public safety?

Most importantly, is LA taking a step in the right direction?

=======From Yahoo News and AP=========

L.A. 'Skid Row' Sweeps Spark Debate
Sun Nov 24, 7:41 PM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!

By PAUL WILBORN, Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES (AP) - After 21 years living amid the tent encampments of downtown Los Angeles, friends call Tyrone Taylor the "Mayor of Skid Row."

These days, the mayor is not happy.

On two afternoons last week, police officers, accompanied by correction officials and federal agents, made an estimated 200 arrests on Skid Row.

They said they were targeting parole and probation violators hiding amid the homeless. But Taylor and others fear police are moving to take them off the streets.

"They are stopping us at random," Taylor said as he pushed his shopping cart along the street Sunday. "They searched me. I'm not on parole. I'm not on drugs."

The crackdown came just days after a consortium of downtown business and development groups, along with two city council members, called for initiatives to combat homelessness downtown. Officials estimate there are between 3,000 and 5,000 people on Skid Row.

Capt. Charlie Beck of the LAPD (news - web sites) said the raids were designed to get criminals off the streets. City officials say there are no plans to relocate the homeless. Maybe that should be a consideration - establish a "human refugee district" where homeless people could find shelter and food - but then again, who would cover the cost? Private charities? Tax-payers?

Despite official assurances, tensions are running high on Skid Row. A brawl broke out at one outdoor soup kitchen on Sunday.

Barry Laskey, 40, was in a crowd along waiting for a ticket to eat when the violence erupted. Blacks fought Hispanics, and one man ended up with a gash across his head.

"You can feel the tension," Laskey said. "The cops have disrupted the normal life down here."

But some downtown residents, like 44-year-old Donald Miller, who lives in a residential hotel, said the police sweeps could be a good thing.

"It's hard to say what is the right solution, but this is a start." Yes, its always a good idea to get criminals off the streets, but what about the rest of the homeless? Should poverty be a crime?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #1 on:** November 25, 2002, 09:40:33 AM »

Here's your answer:
http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/sns-othernews-homeless-lat,0,4367269.story

Wotan · « **Reply #2 on:** November 25, 2002, 09:43:33 AM »

I bet he bought he paid for his shopping cart.

This aint the 1800s. Every piece land in the US is owned by somebody. If the city or state decides they dont wont folks sleeping in card board boxes on property they own then too bad.

Most of the homeless are straight up Nut bags that should be in a mental health facility. Lots of homeless commit crimes and generally hassle people. They are more then just "people without homes".

Theres more restrictions placed on camping in parklands then there are for most cities.

Remember the mail box type flags they wanted put on dumsters. A homeless guy would flip the flag up if he was sleeping in there so he wouldnt end up crushed and buried at the dump.

If florida we get a yearly migration of bums who move south to avoid winter. We get lots of guys sleeping in the dunes at the beach. After a few rapes and robberies committed by the homeless they started arresting folks for sleeping on the beach. Ofcourse the libs chimed in about racism and how "unsensitive" and mean spirited folks were to do this to the poor "homeless". Hell we had 2 bums kill another bum because he set up begging on the corner opposite theres. Our tax money pays to maintain the beaches and to maintain the safety for folks who frequent the beach. These bums contribute nothing. I am glad they decided to run umm off.

fediddle umm.

gofaster · « **Reply #3 on:** November 25, 2002, 10:29:26 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Here's your answer:
http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/sns-othernews-homeless-lat,0,4367269.story

I'd heard something about this. Placing folks on derelict cruise ships isn't a new concept. Its been done before, but with inmates and political prisoners on decommissioned military ships.

vorticon · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2002, 10:32:24 AM »

in a word

YES[/color]

Maniac · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2002, 10:37:49 AM »

The land of the free?

Djust round em up and shoot em!

Sounds more and more like the Talibans....

Boroda · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2002, 11:31:46 AM »

In Soviet times we didn't have homeless people here. I was stunned when I saw a homeless man in the street in Washington DC in 1989...

Vagrancy and "parasitism" were considered crimes in USSR. Noone was homeless. At least a bed or a room in a hostel. Most of the factories and other institutions (even scientific centers) had their own hostels. People from school to pension who didn't have an oficial job were forced to get it (a mark in a "labour book").

"Antisocial personalities" usually ended up in "medical-labour profilactories", a mixture of a hospital and prison-camp. They usually lost their residence permit (propiska) if they lived in big cities and were given a residence "behind 101st kilometer".

Now we officialy don't have residence permits. They remain only in Moscow and were declared "anti-constitutional" by Supreme Court several years ago. In Moscow everyone still must have a "registration", and it's the great reason for our brave Militia to leech money from visitors.

Now we have thousands of homeless people here. Militia doesn't care about them because they have no money to take from them and smell too bad. Railway stations and underground are full of them, everyone hates them, but authorities simply don't care.

Once or twice I have thrown such aromatic persons out of the underground cars... One such amazinhunk who didn't wash for years and carries bags with stinkingtrash or empty bottles in a car makes me absolutely crazy - i can't breath that smell

Damn, one of my friends got arrested for kicking such a bum out to the platform - Militia prefers to arrest a well-dressed man and get some money then to deal with this dirty pieces of toejam

It is not a crime to be poor, but it's a crime to be an amazinhunk who don't want to work at all but prefers to collect empty bottles and sleep in the underground stations getting drunk with cheap poison every night and never cares to wash or at least get rid of louses.

funkedup · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2002, 11:42:46 AM »

There are plenty of ways for homeless people in the US to get food and shelter. But most of them are crazy and choose (directly or indirectly) to live that way. Round 'em up, let a shrink have a look at them. If they are nuts or addicted, hospitalize and treat them. If they are not nuts, give them a warning and jail them next time.

blitz · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2002, 11:48:32 AM »

Hi all.

Berlin has lots of them, homeless people, dirty, smelly, most of them with alcohol problems.

2 years ago i a meet about 50- 80 of them when i worked for a monastry 3 days.
A deep impact on me made that horrible smell coimin with some of them, hard to stand it when you together in 1 room.

These guys and women were comin very early in the morn to get a warm coffee and a breakfast in that first cold winter days.

Talked a bit with some of them, most were nice and kindly , some seemed kind'a strange to me.

I just feel sad when i think of these poor people who didn't made it or lost all they had

To live as a hobo was a crime in Germany till 1970 or something around that date. Glad they changed that stupid law.

Blitz

Ripsnort · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2002, 12:00:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
In Soviet times we didn't have homeless people here. I was stunned when I saw a homeless man in the street in Washington DC in 1989...

When you're all standing in bread lines, how the hell you gonna notice someone down on their luck worse than you???

Preon1 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 25, 2002, 12:14:55 PM »

Being poor in America is like being fat. People are free to choose how they want to live their lives. The problem is when their choices impose other people's way of life. I prefer to lay the responsibility on the hands of the person that made the choice.

Fat people should pay double on airplanes and get two seats so their corpus doesn't overflow on others. Privately owned businesses should not be compelled to widen doorways to make space for people who can't fit through them.

On the same token, homeless people should get a job and make every effort to get off the streets. This would occur with help from the offices already in place to help the homeless. If they can't comply, then the government should mandate that they perform public services in the area where they live. These services would involve things like cleaning up public parks and facilities or acting as spare labor in public works and construction. Compensation would be nominal but meals and clothing would come with # of hours of work in the system.

It may sound like I'm suggesting that we stifle the way of life of a minority. Well it's true. People can and should embrace any way of life they desire. That's part of freedom. But with freedom comes responsibility. When the choices of a minority make a major impact on the lives of everyone else, the government has the right to impose structure. That's why we have laws.

Maverick · « **Reply #11 on:** November 25, 2002, 12:29:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by funkedup
There are plenty of ways for homeless people in the US to get food and shelter. But most of them are crazy and choose (directly or indirectly) to live that way. Round 'em up, let a shrink have a look at them. If they are nuts or addicted, hospitalize and treat them. If they are not nuts, give them a warning and jail them next time.

That isn't possible anymore. Most of the mentally affected that are on the street USED to be in an institution. The ACLU filed suit and got a court order to stop that practice as it amounted to incarceration without having benn found guilty of a crime. On one hand they had a point but the result of their action is a large increase of people who are unable to handle normal spocietal living and instead became street people. Sad but that is the way it is. You cannot lovck someone up just because they are crazy. You must have a legal finding that they are a "danger to themselves and others" and that is pretty tough.

A street bum that stabbed me while I was arresting him was released by a judge as incompetant to stand trial. In effect the judge said he wasn't dangerous because he only stabbed a cop. Later he tried again but was shot in the process. This time another judge was far more rational about it and sent the guy away.

Curval · « **Reply #12 on:** November 25, 2002, 12:32:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
When you're all standing in bread lines, how the hell you gonna notice someone down on their luck worse than you???

No kidding. They must breed the communist spin doctor into their citizens over there.

Sandman · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2002, 12:41:44 PM »

You know... there is a reason why churches are tax free.

Vulcan · « **Reply #14 on:** November 25, 2002, 12:49:31 PM »

Soylent Green.