AH and WB compared

[wells]

Snake, just curious....

What exactly do you expect from a spin??

[Kats]

 

What exactly do you expect from a spin??

His wizzo cracking his skull on the canopy with "you lost that loving feeling" playing in the back ground.  

[funked]

Kats LOL that's the third time in two days you've made me spray my monitor!

[-lazs-]

Guys, all I'm saying is that BOTH sims have incomplete FM's and that one plays a lot faster than the other.  I don't think either one is any better than the other but I prefer the faster play of WB....  I like certain features like film Z key right click for six call, left for tune, of both sims but.... To wave the "realistic FM" flag, by supporters of either sim, is just plain silly at this point.

When I left Dos AW for Dos WB I KNEW I had moved to a far superior sim.... When I came to AH, I knew I was in a different sim.   Last night in WB I got a dozen or so kills and half as many assists in a couple of hrs.  In AH I would be lucky to get a fourth of that.   My K/D stays about the same for both games and I actually find that AH is the easier sim to fly.

It all pretty much boils down to whether you enjoy a lot of action and dogfiting or if you enjoy a lot of jockying for position and planning your egress.  For both sims gameplay is smoke and mirrors and it is done with turn rates and leathiality.   Slight adjustments to turn rates and leathiality give the game it's "nature".   You can use the same two (and both do IMO) factors to make one plane more "popular" than another.
lazs

[Yeager]

Lazs,

Lets talk again after v1.03 release when prop drag, ground effect and dive brakes are *finally* added to AH.

As to the *percieved* speed of play between the two sims, I have been involved with both sims and dont see this subject as relevant in any substantial way with regards to combat.  Time spent gaining advantageous altitude is time well spent from my perspective.


Regarding the comparitive values of AH FMs: are you saying that inaccurate, dishonest data (cant think of any other way to put it) is being used to give any particular FM unfair advantage over any other FM?

Yeager

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by Yeager:

Regarding the comparitive values of AH FMs: are you saying that inaccurate, dishonest data (cant think of any other way to put it) is being used to give any particular FM unfair advantage over any other FM?

Yeager

C'mon, guys...we've all seen Lazs' posts over the last couple years, hell, go over to AGW and see his 'latest whine' of the 109 being too tough!

Lazs, you need a flight sim where all the FM's are identical, then you can whine about how someone is hacking the code after they whoop you into submission.

[gatt]

Only a guy with a below average brain could doubt that:

- AH/WB are a compromise between realism and play;
- AH is still in full development (where was WB after 8-10 months?); hence, AH has some annoying bugs and things to fine tune;
- WB is a great sim;
- there are a lot of ex-WBers here that really enjoy flying and fighting in AH.

Banalities? Not at all! Read Lazs and Snake posts. Plz guys, leave HT and PYRO alone and quiet. We all can live without your silly posts.

[AKSeaWulfe]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Lazs, you need a flight sim where all the FM's are identical, then you can whine about how someone is hacking the code after they whoop you into submission.

I know that game.. it's called Flying Circus. www.simguild.com  He'd fit in just fine over there. :-)
-SW
AKSeaWulfe+

[lazs]

yeager... lets not talk about 1.03 or 3.0 till they get here eh?   Also,the slower gameplay is not a matter of perception... It is very real.  for example, taking off from 10,000 feet does not speed up AH... the slowness is a function of the turn rates and leathiality.   You can't get away if you lose the advantage so never do anything unless you have the advantage...   You can't turn and you can't take any hits....  You don't have a lot of options...  You seem bright enough, so I know you can see that.

As to FM's being fudged.... Well, both sims do it for various reasons but... A lot of the weirdness is due to the FM's of both sims being incomplete.  It makes some planes turn better or worse or climb or accelerate better or worse than they should both in the numbers and compared to each other.   Both sims have warts  and I can't say that either is more "realistic" than the other but they do play a lot differently.

Ya know, when it first came out I tried FC and did pretty well in it.   Guess that makes me unskilled.

On the WB 109 thing.... Probly shouldn't complain just because the 109e is twice as tough as it should be but..... it's fixed now...again.

rip.. could you possibly do a tough guy act any worse?   Take some classes or something.  
lazs

[This message has been edited by lazs (edited 06-20-2000).]

[SnakeEyes]

I expect them to be harder to get out of then they currently are, Wells.  They seem too EZ to get out of, especially when some of these a/c were known to be real monsters in a spin.

If it's simply a matter of the complexity of modeling a spin vis-a-vis other features that could be added, so be it...

PS - I do take what I hear with a grain of salt, Pyro, but I figure there's probably a little fire in the vicinity of that smoke.  

------------------
SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Udie]

Lazs says...... "yeager... lets not talk about 1.03 or 3.0 till they get here eh? Also,the slower gameplay is not a matter of perception... It is very real. for example, taking off from 10,000 feet does not speed up AH... the slowness is a function of the turn rates and leathiality. You can't get away if you lose the advantage so never do anything unless you have the advantage... You can't turn and you can't take any hits.... You don't have a lot of options... You seem bright enough, so I know you can see that."


 I don't think I have seen a paragraph on this board that I disagreed with more than this one.  The only thing that takes longer for me is getting to the fight, because I've become used to climbing to 25k so I don't get bounced by other smart flyers.  You want to see a fast knife fight lazs go to the assasigns home page and d/l the duel films of hblair and myself.  Very fast rolling scissors on the deck and stuff like that, and we were in 190's.  And how would leathality effect the speed of gameplay?

 I have lost the advantage on probobly 25% of my kills and still been able to come back for the kill.  It must be possible to win an advantage back, or you would never be able to lose the advantage in the first place   That's the time when a good wingman comes in handy too  


 Spins I didn't were in the game until last weekend when I got a new stick. It's a new TM that doesnt have the 20lb springs like my old TM.  I spin alot now    I will admit that it does seem a bit easy to get out of them, but that could be because of 5 yrs of online flight.....

udie

[SnakeEyes]

I've yet to find any aircraft here that I couldn't get out of a spin in less than 2 rotations once I started to fight the spin.  I suppose that if I threw the trim totally outta wack, it might be a bit more difficult...

All the flight sim aircraft that I've spun react more like a Su-26/-29/-31 in spins than what I would expect from a WW2 fighter a/c (well, the WB Ki84 has a real nasty spin, but that's the exception not the rule).

------------------
SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Gimp]

    Kats said: That is why golf is so addicting, there's always a new level to challenge yourself with.


Yeah, have you ever heard of a spud launcher

Gimp

[-lazs-]

oodee, you said two kinda contradictory things about the gameplay in AH.   first you say that you have good fast films of fast rolling scisors... That is a 1v1 situation and i take it you were close to the deck... You say a wingman helps... If you have a 1v1 in AH low on the deck you will be meat for every timid AH player waiting for just such a situation.   If you have a wingman the situation (1v1) will not exist anyway..

As for leathiality... The higher the leathiality the less you can afford to engage and the more effective B&Z becomes.   Anyone who engages an nme in AH is blood in the water for the sharks unless he is flying with several squadies.  If you can reverse an attack in AH then the people you are fighting are very lame or very desperate or in much slower planes.  

Add slow turn rates, late war only rides and high leatiality together and you have a very slow paced game.   Make 190's outturn Corsairs and P51's (or anything) and you have a lousy game for most.

I think that there are many people in WB that would love AH with it's LW friendly turn rates and slow pace and I also think that there are a lot of people in AH that would be happier in WB with it's faster pace and turn rates that compare with each other in a more realistic fashion.
lazs

[Yeager]

"You can't turn and you can't take any hits.... You don't have a lot of options... You seem bright enough, so I know you can see that."
=====
Thanks Lazs for the uh, compliment    

Yeager