Question to religious "pro-lifers" (only, plz).

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Wotan
I am a non-Christian and am against both abortion and the death penalty.

Then you are not part of the set of people I refer too.

[Greese]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I read the origional question.

Many Christians believe it is their job to change people.  In my opinion, my job as a christian is not to tell non-christians how sinful they are.  My job is to reflect God's love for his people, in my choices, and in my relationships.

A non-christian is not going to believe in Biblical law.  There is no sense in trying to tell people they are sinning against a God they do not believe in.  Therefore, I, as a Christian, can be against abortions for all reasons, but show God's love to a non-christian who chooses an abortion by loving them anyway, and holding their hand through the experience, praying that God will move that person in a way that changes their heart.

I do not condone abortion for any reason, going back to how I, as a christian, should value all human life.  But the only people I should openly rebuke for choosing a sinful path would be someone who claims to be a christian, who claims to believe in the Bible.

Furthermore, God, through his son Jesus, will forgive anyone who chooses to turn from their own desires and follow Him.  It does not matter to God if someone has had an abortion in the past, murdered 25 people, or for that matter, did nothing but good for people either.  

The point is, that the person is cleansed by the blood of Jesus (figure of speech, don't picture us christians bathing in pools of blood here...), not by how much I point my finger at them and accuse them of being a heathen.

The bottom line, is that I feel saddened by people who choose abortion, not anger.  Christians who try to make sin fell better by trying to justify abortion in the case of  "rape" or some other form of abuse,  are weak christians.  They would rather try to soften the sin of the person, than trust in the healing power that Jesus can bring to a person's soul.  Once again, it is not up to me as a christian, to do anything except show the love that Jesus displayed to the woman at the well (caught in the middle of an adulterous act), Zacchius the tax collector, etc..

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by RDSaustinTX
For an erudite war gamer living in a society that permits partial-birth abortion, you're not very well-informed. Or consistent.
 
"How far along was that child ?"
 

Do you have any clue what my stance on abortion is?

Put down your thesaurus and try to make valid points in the future.

[Kieran]

Many Christians believe it is their job to change people. In my opinion, my job as a christian is not to tell non-christians how sinful they are. My job is to reflect God's love for his people, in my choices, and in my relationships.

'Zactly right.

[miko2d]

Greese: Therefore, I, as a Christian, can be against abortions for all reasons...

 Four - on the same side.

 Obviously, christian's attitude to people who've commited sin is a very different issue from his doing anything in his power to prevent that sin from being commited - by supporting certain policies/laws through lawfull legislative process. You did not have to elaborate that but we appreciate anyway.

 miko

[Kieran]

Fundamentally, a Christian knows it is impossible to keep anyone from committing sin. We all have free will, and the choices are ours. We can avoid helping someone fall to temptation, but that's about it.

[miko2d]

So you would not stone but rather comfort someone who've underwent an abortion - even an illegal one.
 Does that mean you should not try to outlaw it even if you know the law would be broken occasionally?

 miko

[Kieran]

Look... any citizen has the right to lobby for changes to any law as they see fit. If some people, irrespective of their religious beliefs, decide abortion is wrong and should be outlawed, well, that is their right. Bombing clinics seems a little over the top.

But as far as what I believe a Christian should do... I agree with Greese, I cannot legislate morality. I cannot make people make the right choices. It is also not my place to judge them, so yes, I would have to treat them with the same respect as I would anyone else. It doesn't mean I have to hang around with them or be best friends, but I must not put myself in the place of judgement.

Homosexuality is an example of something that traditional Christians abhor, yet Christians would be wrong to turn their backs on homosexuals.

[miko2d]

OK, Kieran, your moral position is even closer to what I would prefer - being against abortion but refusing to participate in legally outlawing it.

 If abortion is legal, your tax money will be used to pay for it. What's more, there will be people profiting from that money and interested in creating more demant for their services, etc., so by making your money available you may be promoting it - though very indirectly.

 I also believe that historically morals and traditions were legislated in a course of development of our western civilisation and 'unlegislating' them should be done carefully, but that's another topic.
 
 miko

[Greese]

We would try to outlaw it, by voting against things we are opposed to.  Using the legal system (appropriately) and democracy is our way of speaking out, just like anyone else.  The people who shoot abortion doctors in the guise of christianity in order to try to stop abortions are insane, and do not represent the majority who do not get the attention.  Even the bullhorn brandishing street preachers that (though they may be "non-violent") are ever ready to condemn every sinner that walks in front of them are missing the point.

[Kieran]

Yup, what Greese said. Christians have the right to avail themselves of the rights of citizenship like anyone else. It is exactly for the reason you state that I would be convinced to become active against abortion- I don't want to support it in any way. My tax dollars going to it definitely is support.

That said, I vote for Pro-Lifers and am content with that. I have enough causes at the moment, and none that I can drop for another.

[StSanta]

Kieran, ammo, Greese and the other consistent Christians. While I may not agree with your position, I must say I admire you for sticking to your faith as you do.

[RDSaustinTX]

We all have free will

 
Now, that's an interesting point, but it sure ain't biblical    

[Zapk1n]

but...it is unfortunately necessary that abortion is legal at least until all the idiots decide to start taking responsibility for their actions. Hopefully there will be a day when it will no longer be necessary except in situations of life and death for the mother.

I think it is disgusting and repulsive, and would never support anyone doing it, but I also understand that its not a perfect world.

My ex wife's sisters had 6 abortions between them by the time they were 18. That is ridiculous. I have a hard time viewing them as something other than murderers. Or at least accomplices to murder.

funny thing is.....i am not even religious. I just realise that life is valuable and shouldnt be frivilously wasted. (except in the case of enemies of the United States, in which case I say raze them to the ground before they can reproduce)

[H. Godwineson]

Legality is not the same as morality.  How can anyone look at that tiny body and not see its' humanity?  Whether you believe in the concept or not, THAT is a sin!

Or does the lack of movement give it the status of a tumor?

Shuckins