The Hammerhead - An opinion

[Dead Man Flying]

Now a hammerhead is cheating?

LOL

I'm the absolute last person you'll find squeaking about the N1K flight model, and I use variations of hammerheads, ropes, etc. all the time.  You might want to rethink this one.  It sucks to have your bellybutton handed to you in any way, shape, or form... and sometimes it sucks moreso because you feel that if you were coalt and co-E, you'd clean his clock.  But fairness isn't always in the equation.

-- Todd/DMF, who racked up 21 kills in a P-47D-30 in H2H one night before running out of fuel... all using alt and rope-a-dopes.

[Bullethead]

Shaw, figure 4-5, page 152.

Turn around at the top with elevator or rudder as the situation warrants, it works out the same either way if you set it up right.

All E tactics play on 1 or the other of the 2 strongest emotions in pilots:  Fear and Greed.  The rope-a-dope, in all its many forms, relies on Greed.  Which means it's risky because good pilots see the trap and the attacker just wastes time, E, and often angles if the target doesn't bite.  But it sure is fun when it works  


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-Bullethead <CAF>

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria

[SOB]

Thanks for the post ArtLaws, this has gotten me interested in learning the move.  I've been killed with it countless numbers of times, but have never used it for myself and don't even have an idea of how to set up the manuever.

Anyone have some pointers on setting up this manuever?  Thanks for the reference BH, I'll have to whip out "The Book"  


SOB

[Mr. T]

handsomehunk.
-SW

[Lephturn]

SOB,

Yep, this a dangerous, but tried and true way to kill.

A "hammerhead" here is rarely what is actually done.  Most folks refer to any near-stall speed reversal at the top of a vertical zoom.  Technically a hammerhead is where you zoom vertically until you hit nearly 0 airspeed, then hold it straight and kick rudder to reverse in a slide as you start falling again.  Done right, you just spin the plane as you fall back down and then blast away at whoever is below you.  Personally, I don't do a "correct" hammerhead.  I normally will zoom vertically until about 50 mph, then pull back hard with elevator and kinda flop over.  You may need some flap out to accomplish this.

Normally though, you don't want to have to flop at that low of a speed.  Ideally, you will get the other guy to follow you up so that you can simply loop over the top at 150 or so.  That way, you can simply hang inverted and wait for him to stall below you so you can drop down at the right moment and blast him.

It takes timing and skill to do properly.  You also need to be a good judge of energy states, and be certain there are no enemy planes with superior energy near by who can shoot you when you are slow at the top of your zoom.  You must also be aware of performance differences in the different planes, so you have an idea how long the other guy can hang there before he flops over and presents himself as an easy target.  You need to set it up so that he is just out of guns range while he can point at you, and dive down just as he can't keep his nose up.  It's tricky but very rewarding.  

Now, what do you do if you are the lower/slower bogey, and ole Lephturn just blew past in his Jug and zoomed looking for the rope-a-dope?  Easy, you play possum.  Cit is the best I've seen at this.  Basically, conserver your E and 0G dive whenever possible.  You may have to avoid a few passes before you are ready for this.  Now when the BnZ guy makes his pass and zooms, follow him up with a very gentle pull up, but try to cut the angle.  Done right, you will zoom with him and close on him as he slows.  Now comes the sneaky part!  Nose over gently at 0G and pretend you are stalling and going back down.  If it works, the attacker at the top will pull over the top and dive on you.  If you have saved enough speed, pull your nose back up and blast him!  At this point you have a couple of things going for you, surprise and airspeed.  He is going to be surprised, and not expecting this.  Also, the enemy will be slow having just reversed vertically at very low speed, and won't have very good directional control.  If you can, shoot him in the face.  Better still, avoid the head-on shot and reverse as he overshoots below you.  Even if you don't kill him, you have just turned the tables on the BnZer and grabbed the advantage.

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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[MrLars]

If you're gettin' roped try this....
BEFORE you're out of E turn belly up to the roper...get him to come down but you maintain your alt...he'll dive by you <if he misses you> Voila...you've started to match E with him. THEN you can start talkin' smack to him for runnin'  



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Lars
***MOL***
Men Of Leisure

[Lephturn]

I should also add that this is bread and butter to a good E fighter pilot.  There is nothing wrong with this move, it is simply a way to exploit a superior energy position.  It is only a sucker move because the enemy has to participate.  You can't really "do" a rope-a-dope, you just zoom after a gun pass as normal for a fighter with superior energy working a target.  If the target is silly enough to try to zoom with you without enough energy, you simply fall on him as he stalls and gun  his slow butt as he shows you his planform.    This is one of the few attacks that the defender has to start for you.

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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by ArtLaws:
I have never made a single kill with the sucker move known as the
             "HAMMERHEAD". Nor do I teach it to any I newbee I train. But they hear
             about it and my experience.

I find allmighty interesting that an official Aces High Trainer does not teach the trainees wich is possibly the most effective way of fighting in Aces high if properly done; the rope a dope.

The rope-a-dope is the main example of good timing,correct E-situation reading (so a good SA is needed), E-fighting and correct vertical reversals. It is by no means easy to do a perfect rope a dope, because by no means is easy to do a proper, well-done vertical reversal in AH, and because the timing and the E-situations involved need a correct timing.

The rope a dope is not only important in any plane, it is an almost indispensable knowledge for planes like the 109g10. Not teaching your trainees how to do it, you make them not to know how to fight in certain fighters.


 And, not only you should teach a trainee how to rope a dope an enemy for him to use it offensively, you SHOULd do it for him to learn NOT to get caught in a rope a dope.

Artlaws, saying what I've said avobe, I mean that I think that you are NOT a good official trainer. Take this not as an insult but as an opinion. One of the first things I was teached to do in aces high was how to fight in the vertical and how to use a better E-situation to force a rope-a-dope. By not teaching this to the guys you train you are,effectively, hurting their skills as AH pilots. And that is not what I would expect from a trainer.



[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-30-2001).]

[hazed-]

I think its fair to say that NO ONE agrees with you artlaws.

Maybe you should learn how to judge the energy state of your persuers so you can perform the extremely tricky timeing needed to perform this manouver well and use it yourself? oh i forgot that would mean using your brains and spacial awareness which,  judging by what citabria and animal said, you obviously dont possess in abundance  .

As to your accusation that this manouver takes advantage of a veiw system failure well i say absolute roadkill  
if anyone climbs in front of you use the forward left/right,up forward with left/right or the up veiw. you never 'lose sight' as you claim.If you have not used the excellent veiw system AH has properly thats your fault not the other players.
roped by a 190a5 in a tempest? ROFL  

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Hazed
3./JG2

[easymo]

  ROTFL. Art is the biggest nik whiner I've run into in H2H. He is one of the few that has went to the trouble to disable the nik. And only the nik in his arena.

  I am glad you are getting to know him though.

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by R4M:
 I find allmighty interesting that an official Aces High Trainer does not teach the trainees wich is possibly the most effective way of fighting in Aces high if properly done; the rope a dope.

The rope-a-dope is the main example of good timing,correct E-situation reading (so a good SA is needed), E-fighting and correct vertical reversals. It is by no means easy to do a perfect rope a dope, because by no means is easy to do a proper, well-done vertical reversal in AH, and because the timing and the E-situations involved need a correct timing.

The rope a dope is not only important in any plane, it is an almost indispensable knowledge for planes like the 109g10. Not teaching your trainees how to do it, you make them not to know how to fight in certain fighters.


 And, not only you should teach a trainee how to rope a dope an enemy for him to use it offensively, you SHOULd do it for him to learn NOT to get caught in a rope a dope.

Artlaws, saying what I've said avobe, I mean that I think that you are NOT a good official trainer. Take this not as an insult but as an opinion. One of the first things I was teached to do in aces high was how to fight in the vertical and how to use a better E-situation to force a rope-a-dope. By not teaching this to the guys you train you are,effectively, hurting their skills as AH pilots. And that is not what I would expect from a trainer.

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-30-2001).]

Ram, being an expert flyer is not what is needed to become a trainer. ACM does not have to a specialty. The patience and ability to deal with the public, keeping a great attitude, and showing a willingness to help even if it involves sacrifice is much more important.

Artlaw may not be an ACM expert or knowledgable in all aspects of Air combat, but he is a good trainer in that he WANTS to help and is showing it.

[easymo]

 He has an arena right now titled "hammerhead ejected". You got to admit he is good for a chuckle.

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by -ammo-:

Artlaw may not be an ACM expert or knowledgable in all aspects of Air combat, but he is a good trainer in that he WANTS to help and is showing it.

I could be absolutely willing to help someone, but then deny any kind of F4U1-C training to the one I am training. That would be in my book a bad example of trainer.

 Artlaws doesnt like vertical fighting and rope-a-dope. Fine. But that doesnt exclude him to teach that kind of move/fighting to the ones who are training. He explicitly says that he doenst teach that and he doesnt plan to do it. So, that is something he must correct in order to be a better trainer. Because right now he is not. IMHO, of course.

Just my 0.02$



[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-30-2001).]

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by R4M:
 I could be absolutely willing to help someone, but then deny any kind of F4U1-C training to the one I am training. That would be in my book a bad example of trainer.

 Artlaws doesnt like vertical fighting and rope-a-dope. Fine. But that doesnt exclude him to teach that kind of move/fighting to the ones who are training. He explicitly says that he doenst teach that and he doesnt plan to do it. So, that is something he must correct in order to be a better trainer. Because right now he is not. IMHO, of course.

Just my 0.02$

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-30-2001).]

understood, but we have a number of trainers that can cover all the bases, I am the first to pass off to another trainer if I dont have the info or expertise. Thats how it works here.

[bowser]

Obviously it's valid in AH, but was it used a lot in WWII?  I think that's his point.  I would think it was pretty rare considering the chance you were taking that the con had enough E to blow you away.

Can somebody post accounts of it's use in WWII?

bowser