Author Topic: The Hammerhead - An opinion  (Read 1385 times)

Offline Seeker

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2001, 08:06:00 AM »
I'm really surprised at this thread, for a wealth of reasons:

1) I've flown a lot in Artlaws' H2H; never been booted, never seen it happen. I'm surprised at Artlaws' out burst here. Is it the same guy?

2) Last time I was there (Satyrday morning my time, I do believe); I was hovering over the furball in a Spit, booming and cherry picking, roping those that came after me and not only was I taunting them to climb up on Ch1, Art was openly warning them off, and we had a bit of a joke going about the process, so what gives here? Art himself was "reversing" to orbit every chance he got, blasting through the fight at 450, with guns blazing and controls locked up every every chance he got, and he tried roping me in his 109 at least twice when I dived in on him doing it.

3)Whilst arguing sim reality is a whole other endless thread; in the game, you teach what works. Teaching people a set of tactical doctrines that you patently know to be inappropriate for the envoiroment they will be faced with is a disservice.

   I'll still be logging into Artlaws' arena, and using everything short of hacking to get the kills. I'll still be flopping at the top of the zoom, wishing it took less than a half minute for the dam Spit's flaps to come out while you spin dweebishly beneath me. I'll still be chopping throttle and snap rolling out of your way when you come screaming in, hair on fire and auger one more time for luck. Is killshooter off?

Offline lazs1

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2001, 08:34:00 AM »
LOL.... where do they get their training staff?   Between him and gijeffie it's a zoo.

I like to see guys try the hammerhead.  i only die if I'm bored.  The Hog is good at faking out rope a dopers.   try to hide your energy.  The Hog climb is doggy and everyone knows it (it is even worse than the "real" hog but I hear they are gonna fix that).   The Hog does zoom climb well tho and if you start at co alt with some smash you can follow em up and usually kill em long before anyone stalls.  The hammerhead works best when the guy is allready above you before it starts and you've burned a lot of e just gettin somewhere close  to his alt.   If you sucker (or get bored into) this situation you will probly die.  You gotta learn to ignore him in those situations.   Be of good cheer... if he sticks around long enough he will get lower while you work your way up.  let him be brought down by guys that are allready up there.   All that climbing and alt gives me nosebleeds anyhow and.... it makes ya look like a sissy or a 51 pilot.
lazs

Offline Dead Man Flying

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2001, 12:07:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker:
1) I've flown a lot in Artlaws' H2H; never been booted, never seen it happen. I'm surprised at Artlaws' out burst here. Is it the same guy?

Note the date of the original post.  Someone kicked this topic back to the top after it had died more than a month ago.  It's entirely possible in that time that Art had a change of heart concerning this matter, especially after practicing it some more.

-- Todd/DMF

Offline Seeker

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2001, 02:18:00 PM »
CC Tod  (Spits out hook)

Offline Damned Wrongway

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #64 on: June 18, 2001, 02:35:00 PM »
My thoughts on the High Rope a Dope or Hammerhead Maneuver.

Never Give A Sucker An Even Break!
W. C.  Fields

And

Never Wizen Up A Chump!
P.T. Barnum


WrW

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Damned Wrongway ]

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Damned Wrongway ]

Offline Furball

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2003, 09:47:40 AM »
thou... shall... not.... punt'eth!

ahhhhh! cant resist!
I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
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Offline Mini D

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2003, 10:29:12 AM »
What's funny is going vertical with Cit (flying a N1K) in tow knowing he has more E and knowing he didn't see the other plane.  Sometimes you don't need to be the guy pulling the trigger to get a charge out of the explosion.

MiniD

Offline OIO

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2003, 11:59:19 AM »
The HH is a perfectly valid tactic..and it was used in WW2.

It is harder to pull in AH because there is no sun... the hammerhead is a dangerous manouver to pull...for if you think about it, you are placing your own airplane in an extremely predictable flight path (UP!) but you also cannot manouver to evade incoming fire because if you do, you will slow down TOO fast and literally serve yourself as an easy kill.

In real life, the sun will make the opposing pilot have a real hard time bearing his guns on you..because of the sun glare. In AH, no sun glare means the virtual pilot has to rely exclusively on his SA (situational awareness..aka knowing opponent's E, alt, plane and sometimes even skill level) and timing..and luck (*cough* helon1k spraying cannon d1.1).


SOB: "Anyone have some pointers on setting up this manuever? "

I use this manouver a LOT in my P-38, I dont know if this will help you but this is what I do:

Firstoff the HH is not a manouver I 'set up'. If you plan to HH someone to death before the 1st merge, there's something really wrong with you (or you got Citardria's ego :D ). The HH is something I consider an emergency manouver.

Since the con is on your 6 already, the most important thing to make *absolutely* sure is that YOU have more E before attempting the HH. Best way ive found to do this is to do a sharp turn (preferably to the side the opposing plane is worse at turning due to torque) taking advantage of the 38's snap-turn ability and split-S followed by an immelman. The con in your 6 will very predictably go into lead persuit (aka point nose in front of your plane, pulling more g's, bleeding more E to get a shot at you).. This is to make him burn his energy and give you more advantage due to the 38's better acceleration (again, depends on enemy plane.. i will never HH a spit, 109g10, n1k or 190d9 unless im absolutely desperate).

On the top of the immelman I level and wep accel.. when the con in my 6 finishes his own immelman i wait for him to level and I go split-S again and repeat the immelman.

By the 2nd split-s & immel you will have made the con lose his E advantage and to boot he will likely think that when you split-s for a THIRD time that you are going to immelman again.

So, split-s for a third time, only dont wait for the con to follow you in the dive, get your speed to about 350mph and pull hard up into a zoom climb and bank the plane on its axis so you only show your side profile to the con as you zoom up. The con will at this point be either just starting his own split-s or be just entering his dive.. in short, has had no chance to gain speed. When the con sees you pulling up he will pull hard up on his stick to try a shot on you.

You will either get hit or zoom up past him.. cons very, very usually follow you up in the zoom firing... i almost always do lazy vertical sciscors to avoid being hit... and I watch my 6..when the con starts to LOSE distance i ready myself to flip over.. watch con..his nose starts to wobble or any other indication that he's starting to have control problems, I lower my throttle to 0. This makes the con suddenly GAIN on me, but its too late for him to get a shot, as usually the pilot on the other end either tries to spray and pray for a hit as he stalls or is too busy controlling his plane to notice he suddenly is gaining on me even though hes about to stall.

And the whole timing issue is right there. If you HH with your opponent being d800 behind you, chances are that by the time you flip over, he will already have nosed down and gained speed... effectively reversing the attacker/victim (which is good for you) but you wont get a shot at him. By timing it so your own plane stalls almost at the same time as his you will give yourself a perfect chance at shooting the con down as he tries to regain control after the stall (and the 38's superior low speed handling, no torque and superior initial acceleration will let you flip over fast, be in control and close in on the con before he starts to gain speed). Ideally I try to cut my engines when con has not been gaining on me in the zoom climb for little while or the instant I see him losing control... the 38's brick-like drag will slow you in an instant to stall speed.

Offline kappa

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2003, 01:18:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan

Maybe Artlaws is just jealous because he hasn't mastered it  [img]


Hes mastered at LEAST half of it... 8)

k
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Offline lazs2

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2003, 02:27:12 PM »
what idiot dredged this one up again?    was even pre mini d.

lazs
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Offline SOB

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2003, 03:13:09 PM »
**** you Lazs, this is a great thread!

;)
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Offline wetrat

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2003, 05:05:33 PM »
I sure hope I come across ArtLaw the next time I get around to flying a bit... many a tear will be shed ;)
Army of Muppets

Offline Furball

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2003, 05:14:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
what idiot dredged this one up again?    was even pre mini d.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


Sorry, couldn't resist. i guess i am an idiot.

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Offline g00b

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Is it even possible...
« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2003, 07:32:15 PM »
to do a REAL hammerhead in this game? Could RL WWII planes do a REAL hammerhead? That is pull vertical 'till you've lost all speed then kick in the rudder and PIVOT around the wingtip and come back down. I've been playing this game since beta and have not yet figured out how to do a TRUE hammerhead consistently. Nor have I heard of any RL WWII aircraft that did it (though I'm sure some could have) 'cept for the P38. This is one area of flight sims that still leaves me wanting, post stall flight dynamics, lomcevaks anyone?

Offline JB42

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The Hammerhead - An opinion
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2003, 08:55:58 PM »
You dont want to get Hammerheaded? Then fly a 109. Nothing moistens my drawers more than watching an energy fighter try to zoom my Gustav and then pull up and try to rope me. :D
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