Author Topic: Brittish didn't sink the Bismark  (Read 2221 times)

Offline NOD2000

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2002, 07:44:29 AM »
hazed i'm just saying what they said on teh the show about it when they whent down to look at it.

Offline SLO

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2002, 08:38:37 AM »
British is spelled "LIMEY"...not B.r.i.t.i.s.h.

The brits DID win the VICTORY over the Germans.

Bismarck did sink with the limeys all over it...suicide or no....the brits where victorious...just like the battle of Britain.

but don't forget limey's....you where not alone....Canadians....Aussies ...Indians...all a whole bunch of others got you that victory

Offline Kweassa

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2002, 08:59:20 AM »
I think technically, having forced a ship into a situation where quick repairs/escape is not an option, and the only left choice was to abandon ship and detonate it before another wave of attack comes in, counts as "sunk".

 Wasn't USS Lexington like that?

Offline hazed-

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2002, 09:03:42 AM »
I know full well what the show said. And it certainly did not imply that the british didnt sink or defeat her.

they merely said that the Germans scuttled her because they faced capture and defeat.
And btw we wouldnt have thrown rocks at it we would have rammed the bastards.

You also now seem to be saying that the gunnery accuracy was poor when you have no idea of the difficulty it seems.

The british ships had less range and smaller ships and so were being hit long before their guns came into range.Those gunners were firing under the most extreme conditions possible.They were hit several times and some guns lost all but 2 crew but continued to fire.One fellow loading whilst the other aimed with their dead pals lying all around them.It is a well documented fact that British sea gunners were the best in years gone by and still are among, if not the best today.
If you dont agree I suggest you take yourself down to portsmouth, where i lived as a kid and go to the naval barracks and shout it at the top of your lungs.

The matter would be delt with forthwith ;)

This battle was one of pride for the British.The Hood was the pride of our fleet and was a terrible loss.The sinking of the bismark was incredibly important for national pride and revenge  as well as for its tactical value. I suggest you read the whole account of the battle, from the sneaking out to sea to the chase and the subsiquent battle.After doing so perhaps you will, like me have only the greatest admiration for those sailors and crew and you'll think twice before posting 'The British didnt sink the bismark'

the shells may not have sunk her but they were going to the bottom one way or another.

The British did sink the Bismark.

Offline Wotan

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2002, 09:06:45 AM »
It would have been an even greater victory for the Brits had they captured it........

Offline ygsmilo

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2002, 09:13:32 AM »
Doesn't matter whether it was scuttled or not.  RN engaged and destroyed the Bismark.  

RN

Offline NOD2000

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2002, 11:12:10 AM »
sorry i should have made the name of the thread 'british shells didn't sink the bismark"

that is what i ment..........don't get me wrong i think that the men on the prince william were brave but not near as brave as the gladiator pilot that ducked in through the fire and hit the rudder  

BRING THE GLADIATOR TO AH!!!!
(had to sneek that in)

don't get me wrong all i am saying is that british shells didn't bring her down as many belived.............

Offline GScholz

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2002, 05:51:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hazed-
why is it you people need to constantly try to knock British accomplishments in WW2?

I think its because you lack any decent war stories to tell about your own country myself :)

for surely if you did have some to tell you would post them instead of trying to lessen other countries victories.


Dont forget the bismark was sinking all manner of shipping including american merchant ships.We lost Hms Hood in the battle with the Bismark and many sailors perished for that victory.
If you read about the battle you would see that the captians of the other ships were incredibly brave to face those huge guns with their far less powerfull guns.

I find it disgusting that you should try to make their sacrifice less merely to annoy a few english people on this BB.

By your thinking the Americans DIDNT defeat Japan. They surrendered (scuttled :)).Does that make you feel good?

exactly, so screw your idea and post on the 'mentality of a 4 year old' forum


Easy ... Nobody's trying to "knock" the Brits (except the obvious Trolls ;) ). However I don't consider the sinking of Bismarck "courageous" on the part of the British. Nearly every capital ship in the UK home fleet descended upon "him" while he was unmaneuverable due to the Swordfish torpedo hit. Bismarck never stood a chance. The 8 big 15" guns of Bismarck wasn't THAT big. Several UK battleships had 14" or 15" guns, and HMS Rodney had nine 16". He was outnumbered, out gunned, and outmaneuvered. The thing to fear about the Bismarck was his advanced radar controlled gun-directors.

The crew of the HMS Hood however have my undisputed admiration for their courage, and sympathy for their loss. They faced Bismarck alone (attending cruisers didn't do much good). Don't think this will make you feel any better, but the reason the Hood blew up after that first salvo was a design fault on behalf of her designers (speed over armour), not an effect of the superior gun power of the Bismarck.
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Offline Dowding (Work)

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2002, 05:55:31 AM »
Out of interest, do you think Gunther Scholz was courageous?

Offline GScholz

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2002, 06:02:14 AM »
I'm sorry, but I don't know enough of his service history to say one way or the other.

I guess you're fishing for the "all who faught were coruageous" statement? ... Yes they all where. I should have said "The sinking of Bismarck wasn't exceptionally coreagous ..."
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Offline RRAM

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2002, 06:13:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The thing to fear about the Bismarck was his advanced radar controlled gun-directors.
.
.
.
The crew of the HMS Hood however have my undisputed admiration for their courage, and sympathy for their loss. They faced Bismarck alone .




1-radar contolled fire was vastly superior on the british side. German naval-applied radar was never on par with the british one.

On the other hand, optic rangefinders were way better on the german ship, and that was the reason because KM Bismarck's fire was so accurate during the engagement with HMS Hood. Ideal optical conditions and calm seas.


2- The HMS Hood (8 15 inch guns) was sailing with the Battleship Prince of Wales (10-14 inch guns, even while some of the mounts were giving trouble). Both ships had way more firepower than the german squadron, comprising the heavy cruiser Prince Eugen (8- 8 inch guns) and the battleship Bismarck (8-15 inch guns). And, not to be forgotten, not far from the action (in fact they were within visual range), were the british heavy cruisers Norfolk and Suffolk (both with 8-inch guns each).

The british HMS Hood hardly was "facing Bismarck alone" on that confrontation...in fact the british squadron had twice the firepower than the german one.

 what happened was that the germans were immensely lucky whith the hit that blew the British ship.



Finally, I also agree that the Bismarck was sunk by british actions.
However I don't see the epic side of this story ,at least from the british PoV.


To be clear: the KM Bismarck was a sorely obsolete ship, heavily overweighted, fatally overcrewed, poorly protected and ridden with lots of faulty design features that only could led to its destruction in a naval confrontation. It was a fuel hog, a not-that fast ship (it barely could sail at 29knots, which wasn't that great), and was only moderately well armored (8 15 inch guns in 4 twin turrets was not a good armament for a ship displacing almost 50.000 tons at full displacement).


Even more: it was sunk in an action where everyone knew the only outcome was the sinking of the german ship.  The Bismarck had not enough fuel to reach France after getting the torpedo in his stern. It had a disabled steering system and couldn't steam at more than 10-15 knots, in a wide 200nm circle. It couldn't be helped by anything, and its fate was to be sunk in a naval action, or scuttled by its crew to avoid being captured after running out of fuel.


British propaganda made wonders in turning a  pyrric victory achieved with overwhelming odds into a war triumph. It was normal, given the shock the loss of the HOod had caused between the british people...but now ,60 years later we should know better and aknowledge the true conditions of the sinking of that ship.

Offline GScholz

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2002, 06:32:03 AM »
I didn't know about the HMS Prince of Wales. Like I said; the cruisers wouldn't have done much good. Their firepower would have given the British the edge, albeit for a short time. They would have been knocked out early in any protracked engagement. The Prince of Wales on the other hand would have won the day for the British. The Hood was critically underarmored ... technically she was not a battleship, but a battlecruiser.

The crew of the HMS Hood still have my ... sympathy.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2002, 08:02:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by RRAM
1-radar contolled fire was vastly superior on the british side. German naval-applied radar was never on par with the british one.

On the other hand, optic rangefinders were way better on the german ship, and that was the reason because KM Bismarck's fire was so accurate during the engagement with HMS Hood. Ideal optical conditions and calm seas.


The Prince of Wales was not able to use her radar targeting because of her own high powered radio transmissions.  It was only after the Hood was sunk and the Prince of Wales was being battered that the targeting radar was finally turned on and her fire became more accurate and scored multiple hits on the Bismark.


Quote
2- The HMS Hood (8 15 inch guns) was sailing with the Battleship Prince of Wales (10-14 inch guns, even while some of the mounts were giving trouble). Both ships had way more firepower than the german squadron, comprising the heavy cruiser Prince Eugen (8- 8 inch guns) and the battleship Bismarck (8-15 inch guns). And, not to be forgotten, not far from the action (in fact they were within visual range), were the british heavy cruisers Norfolk and Suffolk (both with 8-inch guns each).


The 8 15-inch guns on the Bismark were as good, if not better than any gun in the British fleet.  Only the 16-inch guns of the British Nelson Class battleships were better.  The Bismark was 1/6 of a mile long and 120 feet wide, which made the battleship an excellent and stable gun platform.

Quote
The british HMS Hood hardly was "facing Bismarck alone" on that confrontation...in fact the british squadron had twice the firepower than the german one.


While the Hood and Prince of Wales might have numberically out-gunned the Bismark, you seem to forget that the Bismark also had an escort cruiser with him.  Prinz Eugan pretty much equalized things.

Also, the opening tactic used by Admiral Holland when he decided to charge the Bismark and Prinz Eugan head long only allowed to bring the foward guns of the Hood and Price of Wales to bear on the German ships.  The Bismark and Prinz Eugan were able to bring all their guns to action from the start.

Quote
what happened was that the germans were immensely lucky whith the hit that blew the British ship.


It wasn't luck, it was a combination of many things.  Bad tactics in the opening part of the action was a major factor in the destruction of the Hood as was initially mis-identifying the Prinz Eugan as the Bismark.  The British incorrectly identified the Prinz Eugan as the Bismark because of their similiar profile and the British opening salvo was aimed at the Prinz Eugan.  This let the better trained gunners on the Bismark accuratly target the Hood and Prince of Wales with his 15 inch main guns.  

It was also bad command decisions by Admiral Lutjens that ultimatly sealed the Bismarks fate.  


Quote
Finally, I also agree that the Bismarck was sunk by british actions.
However I don't see the epic side of this story ,at least from the british PoV.


At the time the Bismark was the fastest and larget battleship ever made and if it had successfully slipped into the shipping lanes, it would have wreaked havok amongst the convoys.  Probably doing as much damage as the U-boats did.  Pretty epic if you ask me.


Quote
To be clear: the KM Bismarck was a sorely obsolete ship, heavily overweighted, fatally overcrewed, poorly protected and ridden with lots of faulty design features that only could led to its destruction in a naval confrontation. It was a fuel hog, a not-that fast ship (it barely could sail at 29knots, which wasn't that great), and was only moderately well armored (8 15 inch guns in 4 twin turrets was not a good armament for a ship displacing almost 50.000 tons at full displacement).


The work on the Bismark was started in 1939 and finished in 1940.  It had a top speed of 29-30 knots (in comparison, the Iowa class of battleships, were the same speed).  The Bismark was better designed than the H.M.S Hood and most of the other British main ships of the line.  It had superior armor and fire control.  The H.M.S. Hood on the other hand, had all the defects inherent with World War I battle cruisers and was unmodernized and over twenty years old.  The Prince of Wales was a new ship but hadn't had a shake down cruise and wasn't really considered battle worthy, it still had  Vickers engineers working on the guns.  The Hood also had very weak deck armor, which probably led to the decision of Admiral Holland to charge the German ships head on.  

The Washington Treaty stated that battleships weren't to exceed 35,000 tons but as we all know, the Germand didn't pay heed.  Being 50,000 tons, allowed the engineers to give the Bismark incredibly thick armor and therefore making it a very resilient ship.  Over 40% of the ship's weight was from the armor plating and he was still able to make 30 knots.  I would say the Bismark was hardly obsolete by any stretch of the word.


Ack-Ack
« Last Edit: December 10, 2002, 08:06:55 AM by Ack-Ack »
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Offline RRAM

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2002, 09:10:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The Prince of Wales was not able to use her radar targeting because of her own high powered radio transmissions.  It was only after the Hood was sunk and the Prince of Wales was being battered that the targeting radar was finally turned on and her fire became more accurate and scored multiple hits on the Bismark.



I'm talking about generic technology here. Someone mentioned  that German radar was very good, and I say that that is not the case.

Bismarck's radar was totally unable to assist accurate rangefinding once the "open fire" order was given due to the incapability to discern between the shell fall splashes and the targetted ships themselfs.

British radar could do it with no problem.


 

Quote
The 8 15-inch guns on the Bismark were as good, if not better than any gun in the British fleet.  Only the 16-inch guns of the British Nelson Class battleships were better.  The Bismark was 1/6 of a mile long and 120 feet wide, which made the battleship an excellent and stable gun platform.



the 15/42 guns aboard of the Hood were among the best guns mounted on a battleship, and were MORE efficient than the high velocity 15' guns aboard the Bismarck. In fact, the British RN was more satisfied with the 15' guns than with the 16' aboard the Rodneys (the 16' shell was relatively light for its caliber, and had a flat high-speed trajectory that caused a low efficiency at long range shootouts)

Also, the performance of the british shells were much better than that of the germans.


Quote
While the Hood and Prince of Wales might have numberically out-gunned the Bismark, you seem to forget that the Bismark also had an escort cruiser with him.  Prinz Eugan pretty much equalized things.



I do mention Prinz Eugen in my analysis. Re-read it.

Anyway, I must say that ,to think that a 13000 ton heavy cruiser with 8 eight inch guns "equalizes things", compared with a 35000 ton, with 10 14 inch guns and 20 5.25 guns, is a quite wrong assessment.

Even more because you again leave out Norfolk and Suffolk, both with the same weapons than the Prinz Eugen.



Quote
Also, the opening tactic used by Admiral Holland when he decided to charge the Bismark and Prinz Eugan head long only allowed to bring the foward guns of the Hood and Price of Wales to bear on the German ships.  The Bismark and Prinz Eugan were able to bring all their guns to action from the start.



A wrong tactical decision does not change the nature of my assessment of the situation. The germans were hopelessy outgunned in that action, and I think that in 9 out of 10 re-enactmenets of that battle, the Germans would've got mauled.

Holland did a wrong move when he faced the german squadron, had he decided to close ranges in a less drastical way, the germans would've got their tulips handed to them.


Quote
It wasn't luck, it was a combination of many things.  Bad tactics in the opening part of the action was a major factor in the destruction of the Hood as was initially mis-identifying the Prinz Eugan as the Bismark.  The British incorrectly identified the Prinz Eugan as the Bismark because of their similiar profile and the British opening salvo was aimed at the Prinz Eugan.  This let the better trained gunners on the Bismark accuratly target the Hood and Prince of Wales with his 15 inch main guns.  



was pure plan and simple luck. The Hood, while being a re-inforced battlecruiser (the bassic design was modified after Jutland battle, still on the docks, to reinforce the armor of the ship), had a pretty impressive ammount of armor on board. The nature of that armor makes practically impossible to put a 15' round into an ammunition store, given the angles of approach , the penetration capabilities of the german round, and the armor on board Hood. The chance existed, but it was very slim. Literally, one shot out of a million.

The issue is so complicated that still is a matter of discussion in naval tech boards. There are several teories on the blowing up of the Hood. I'll list them, pasted and copied from a fantastic study found in the best naval site I know on Internet (http://www.warships1.com)

At the Battle of the Denmark Straits, the Hood was defeated and destroyed with a large loss of life.  Out of a complement of 1,419 men, only three were rescued.  Some facts about the Hood's demise are beyond dispute:  The aft 15 inch (38.1 cm) magazine exploded, the explosion collapsed the amidships section, the ship broke into two sections with the stern section sinking almost immediately and the bow section floating for about three minutes.   However, the reasons for her loss have been a source of controversy ever since the battle.  There are at least seven plausible explanations for the HMS Hood's sinking.  I have heard others, but, I do not find them credible enough to list here.  The first four are what I consider to be the most likely Theories, the others are given in no particular order.

  1) Official Explanation:  The British held two inquiries into the Hood's loss.  The first was quite brief, reporting on 2 June 1941, less than two weeks after the Hood was sunk.  The second was much longer and detailed, taking testimony from 89 witnesses from the Norfolk, 71 from the Prince of Wales, 14 from the Suffolk, 2 from the Hood and from numerous technical experts.  This inquiry reported on 12 September 1941.  Both inquiries concluded that the cause of the Hood's loss was not from the Cordite fire on the boat deck, but from one or two 15 inch shells which pierced through the thin amidships deck armor (or possibly the side belt), set off the four inch magazine which in turn set off the after 15 inch magazine.

2) A 15 inch hit that struck the ship underwater, penetrated under the armor belt and detonated in the aft 15 inch magazine.

3) An 8 inch (20.3 cm) or a 15 inch hit on the boatdeck that started a major fire in the four inch ready-use and UP lockers.  This gangfired down the four inch ammunition hoists, detonated the four inch magazines, which in turn then set off the aft 15 inch magazine.

4) The fire on the boatdeck as above, but it detonated the torpedo storage and that in turn blew the aft 15 inch magazine.  This theory was advanced by the head of the Director of Naval Construction (DNC), Sir Stanley Goodall (who, together with A. L. Attwood, had been in charge of the Hood's design while he was a constructor).   A problem with both this and the previous theory is that the fires on the Boat Deck were reported to be dying down by both the witnesses on the Prince of Wales and by Able Seaman Tilburn, the only Hood survivor from the Boat Deck.  It is possible that a second fire was burning unseen (to outside observers) down in the torpedo body room, but no such report reached the bridge in the four minutes between the time of the first hit and the time of the Hood's destruction.

5) As a result of the lessons the British learned at Jutland - where three British Battlecruisers blew up from German shellfire - the Hood was redesigned while still under construction to increase her armor protection.  This design work was poorly done, resulting in a badly stressed hull.  So, at the Denmark Strait battle, the fire on the boatdeck as above may have set the torpedoes on fire.  This would have created a very hot fire that could have weakened the strength deck, causing stress levels (already critical) to pass the danger point.  The result was that the ship simply broke in half.  As the ship broke up, the fire penetrated into the magazines, which then exploded.

6) Just before leaving on her last voyage, the crew had been working to correct a defect in one of the Hood's magazine hydraulic systems. It was stopping just short of the proper level needed to lift  cartridges into the loading position.  It is unknown if this fault was completely corrected.  This problem, if unrepaired or with the turret crew, in the stress of battle, working without all safety precautions in place, could have caused a cartridge, and instantly thereafter the magazine, to explode.

7) A 15 inch shell struck the belt armor, skidded down the inclined face of the plating, and then exploded in the bilges.  The flash and blast got propagated through the ship's belly into the aft magazine.  This sounds odd, but there was some testing done in the late 1920s that might support the idea.  These showed that inwardly inclined armor may indeed deflect a shell in the manner suggested, with the result that the shell would explode in a very dangerous position - under the armor belt and inside the anti-torpedo protection system.  Apparently, the concerns about this possibility were enough to cause the DNC to abandon inclined armor for the King George V, Lion and Vanguard class battleships.

Nasty point about Theories 3, 4 and 5 is that the damage that sank the Hood would have been inflicted by the Prinz Eugen.  So, ironically, a battlecruiser designed and built to destroy cruisers was instead destroyed by a cruiser.



more on this in  http://www.warships1.com/BRbc15_Hood_loss.htm






At the time the Bismark was the fastest and larget battleship ever made and if it had successfully slipped into the shipping lanes, it would have wreaked havok amongst the convoys.  Probably doing as much damage as the U-boats did.  Pretty epic if you ask me.


Bismarck was "sold" to the media as the fastest ship ever made. In fact it was barely 0.5 knots faster than the british King George V and the american North Carolinas (the KM Bismarck, on loaded condition, never surpassed 29knots).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2002, 09:15:21 AM by RRAM »

Offline RRAM

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Brittish didn't sink the Bismark
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2002, 09:11:40 AM »
I follow with my answer, seems that the message was too long to be contained in just one answer :)


The work on the Bismark was started in 1939 and finished in 1940.  It had a top speed of 29-30 knots (in comparison, the Iowa class of battleships, were the same speed).  The Bismark was better designed than the H.M.S Hood and most of the other British main ships of the line.  It had superior armor and fire control.  The H.M.S. Hood on the other hand, had all the defects inherent with World War I battle cruisers and was unmodernized and over twenty years old.  The Prince of Wales was a new ship but hadn't had a shake down cruise and wasn't really considered battle worthy, it still had  Vickers engineers working on the guns.  The Hood also had very weak deck armor, which probably led to the decision of Admiral Holland to charge the German ships head on.  


-You might want to re-check your sources. Bismarck was started in 1936, IIRC.

-Iowa Battleships are listed at 33knots. There are instances of Iowas steaming at 35 knots under certain favorable conditions.

-the HMS Hood was unmodernized from 1920, yes, but didn't share the same problems as the Jutland battlecruisers. The ship had weak deck armor and needed a refit, true, but its belt ,turret, CT, etc protection ranged all from good to excellent. The magazine protection was extensively revised while still in construction, and, other than the weak deck armor, the Hood was an, if not well-protected ship, at least a decently protected one.


Quote
The Washington Treaty stated that battleships weren't to exceed 35,000 tons but as we all know, the Germand didn't pay heed.  Being 50,000 tons, allowed the engineers to give the Bismark incredibly thick armor and therefore making it a very resilient ship.  Over 40% of the ship's weight was from the armor plating and he was still able to make 30 knots.  I would say the Bismark was hardly obsolete by any stretch of the word.



You might want to re-check again your sources.

first of all, the Bismarck when lauched was listed at 35000 tons not to alarm the british. Hitler promised to stay within the treaty limits in his particular naval agreement with Britain in 1935.

Second of all, the Bismarcks were designed to be around 45000 tons at full load. The ship as finished weighed an incredible 50000 tons in full load condition, 52000 on overload condition (KM Bismarck sailed in overload condition in May'41). Those 5000 tons of overwheight were caused from bad design features, redundant and overcomplex equipment, etc.


Third of all, the Bismarck was, by a wide margin, worse protected than a British King George V class battleship, or an american North Carolina or South Dakota.

is true that most of the weight of the Bismarck was devoted to protection, the problem was the way the protection was PLACED. Since the end of WWI, the naval designers around the world were designing ships with all-or-nothing armor schemes. That is, the vital places were protected with big ammounts of armor, while non-vital places were left with no armor at all. That helped both in giving a better ship protection (because its vital parts were greatly protected) and a lower weight penalty (because the only part protected were the vitals, saving weight on not-needed armor elsewhere)

Germany was forbidden to design ships over 10000 tons, so their design teams fell behind in the big-ships naval tech race; so when in 1934 Hitler created the Kriegsmarine, the ships designed for that fleet were without all-or nothing armor scheme. How strange that all german big ships of WW2 shared a common denominator: they all suffered an enormous overweight ;)

In other words, EVERY part of the bismarck had an AVERAGE ammount of armor...even if it was not needed. And the VITALS were left with a way less-than-appropiate ammount of armor to protect them.

Next to know is that the german ships were designed without knowledge of the inter-war lessons, which pointed at a higher danger to the horizontal decks of the ship. The german designers, basing their work in WW1 lessons, never gave any of their ships a decent deck protection (in fact is well known the fact that the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had a small "window" over the machinery wich had NO deck armor protection -AT ALL- against plunging fire).


Finally, the weapon arrangement was obsolete. Each of the turrets aboard Bismarck weighted thousands of tons, and it had four. For those four turrets, Bismarck had 8 guns.

I don't need to say that you can pack 9 guns in three turrets in a much more efficient arrangement, and the weight saved could go to a proper armor scheme. (or 8 guns in three turrets, or even 10 in three or four turrets, etc)

there were other inexplicable blunders:

-the ship, thanks to its extreme overloaded design was very wet and nose heavy, causing bad sea-keeping conditions.
Moreover, the 5000ton overweight at full-load caused the main armored belt to be completely UNDER THE WATER, where it could offer no real protection at all.

-Literally MILES of VITAL electrical wiring were left UNPROTECTED because their lines ran over very weakly armored section of the ships, instead of being well protected inside the main armored citadel. Thus, a simple 5' hit on the superstructure near some of those lines could render vital equipment lost.


-the turrets were operated via an interdependant motion (spelling? don't know how to say it) system. In the final engagement, ONE 16' hit BETWEEN  Anton and Bruno turrets disabled BOTH turrets at the same time because they were left without motive power. A properly designed ship would've lost none, or, at the most one turret with such a hit.


-the ship had its heavy 4.1 AA battery calibrated for two different rangefinders, but they all fired following the orders of the modern one. net result: 40% of the heavy AA battery of the KM Bismarck was shooting to the air because it wasn't calibrated to the appropiate fire control rangefinder.


-the 3 screw propeller design was highly inneficient and caused structural weakness (there are several accounts of german ships losing their "tails" when hit by a torpedo. Bismarck almost lost its own when hit by the swordfish). There were no 3-screw battleships used by any main contender fleet around the world, except on the german Kriegsmarine.

-etc etc etc etc etc. I could go for ages.


I stand on what I said: the German Bismarck was a ship based on a WWI concept. It was obsolete, it was ridden with design fautls, it had deficient and badly placed protection...

in short, it was a floating fault waiting to be sunk.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2002, 09:25:05 AM by RRAM »