Author Topic: Do we need to know what plane type we are fighting? (Read 913 times)

Shift · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2002, 03:57:38 PM »

I am only saying to take the plan type icon away not the distance.

Good point laz's but what your saying happens in the MA already.

190's and pony's already attack in the same way all the time UNTIL they find a prey that they can kill.........an easy kill......e.g ganged or TBM or sumthin.

Not knowing what plane you are attacking takes away part of the advantage they have in the MA so it actually makes it harder for them so they will be less ruleing without plane type icon modes.

The MA at the moment is controlled by the fastest planes that BnZ and generally keep safe in dogfights. They already have the advantage this evens it a little more and makes dogfighting a lot better for the other planes well.

The easy kills will be generally ruled out for the BnZers.

Engine · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2002, 04:05:57 PM »

I'm new and don't have the experience with the gameplay mechanics you guys do, but all the same I'd like icons to stay. This is because I'm 22 and live in Queens and have never trained to identify planes 4k out based on a few pixels on a 2d screen, but the WW2 pilot I log into has been trained to ID planes. Hope this makes sense, as I just woke up.

SirLoin · « **Reply #17 on:** December 11, 2002, 04:07:09 PM »

I would love to see this tried out in the CT for possible use in the Mission Theatre.

DES · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2002, 04:23:30 PM »

If you don't like icons turn them off, I can't tell the planes apart from d500 without them.

des

Wlfgng · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2002, 04:25:36 PM »

just let us make them smaller if desired !

Tarmac · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2002, 04:27:21 PM »

I agree with Engine on this one... taking away icons would make it impossible to ID a plane until it was right on top of you. Even at D1000, a plane is still only drawn with 10 or 15 pixels (at 800x600 res). Getting rid of plane types in icons would penalize people with lower-end systems running at low resolutions enormously.

I'm still all for getting rid of the designations in some cases though... IRL you can't tell the difference between an F4U-4 and an F4U-1D until they're right on top of you.

Also, IRL, you'd only be encountering one or two types of planes. In the ETO, if you saw a single-engine fighter, you only had to be able to tell if it was a 190 or a 109. In the MA, we have 30 or 40 fighter types... hardly realistic, so we make the gamey concession of putting icons on.

Furious · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2002, 04:28:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shift
...190's and pony's already attack in the same way all the time...
...Not knowing what plane you are attacking takes away part of the advantage they have in the MA so it actually makes it harder for them so they will be less ruleing without plane type icon modes...
...The easy kills will be generally ruled out for the BnZers.

You are removing a percieved advantage from one group and giving it fully to another.

Your idea requires the faster less manueverable machines to give up any alt/speed advantage in order to ID their opponent when this ID'ing could be done at much greater distances in RL.

This is another one of those ideas that make the game more difficult just for the sake of making it more difficult. If this is what you desire then petition HT to create an increased difficulty arena.

And if folks are getting "easy" BnZ kills off ya, it's not their fault.

F.

F.

narsus · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2002, 04:47:10 PM »

I would agree with lazs on this as well, and engine and tarmac make a good point.

I am fairly up on ww2 fighters and identification, but still have difficulty seeing that on a video sreen. And yes I have tried WB 3 with no icons and had no luck unless I am running into him.

Nice idea shift but I will pass.

straffo · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2002, 02:13:59 AM »

I tryed no-icon ... it was not really immersive

Then I switched off my screen !

and voila ! blind like a newby pilot ! THAT'S IMMERSION !

J/K gents

wulfie · « **Reply #24 on:** December 12, 2002, 02:31:50 AM »

In real life the trained eye can ID/spot/etc. aircraft at much greater ranges than 'no icons' would simulate in AH.

Talk to any military aircrew, experienced pilot, etc. about this.

No icons does not equal more realism in any way whatsoever.

Mike/wulfie

Apar · « **Reply #25 on:** December 12, 2002, 04:28:07 AM »

WTG Shift, couldn't agree more.

This despite the fact that the icon compensates for differences in real life vision compared to computer vision.
I think an Icon without plane info would make it more interesting.

Wotan · « **Reply #26 on:** December 12, 2002, 04:43:23 AM »

No we need plane info as we are flying in a mixed bag main. This would lead to fast planes and more running and less fighting.

What we dont need is range info. A WWiiol type icon would work.

The icon starts out a faded red for nme green for friendly and the color get darker the closer you get.

But plane type is essential for good fighting. Unless you like an arena of late war bore and ZZZZZZZZ'rs running about afraid of their own shadows.

If not something along these lines leave the icons alone. We arent flying in an axis/allies theater specific main where the number of different plane types are limited and there by easier to id.

A main that revolves around running, hiding and sneak attacks would be boring as hell.

straffo · « **Reply #27 on:** December 12, 2002, 04:43:45 AM »

When you are a fast reader like me sometime strange things happen

What I've read

:

Quote

Originally posted by Apar
WTG Shift, couldn't agree more.

This despite the fact that the icon compensates for differences in real life vision compared to computer vision.
I think a Icon without plane would make it more interesting.

Now compare to what was really writen

Fariz · « **Reply #28 on:** December 12, 2002, 04:51:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by wulfie
In real life the trained eye can ID/spot/etc. aircraft at much greater ranges than 'no icons' would simulate in AH.

Talk to any military aircrew, experienced pilot, etc. about this.

No icons does not equal more realism in any way whatsoever.

Mike/wulfie

Sure, no icon is problem in computer game, though sometimes they are fun. Not a casual fun, so not aplicable for MA.

What I like to see implemented is gradual icons. At 6k it is friendly/enemy icon. At 3k it is type of plane (spit/f4u/109). At 1k range it is plane model (spit XIV/f4uC/109g6). After plane is "identified", icons stays on it till plane out of 6k range again. So if you know it is spit (plane was under <3k >1k), it is stays on plane even if plane >3k <6k then. Same with model.

It will help to solve perk plane issue along with being more realistic. Have you flew perk planes? I get wtg on country channel when I get 4 kills in spit XIV, but do not get wtg when I land 5 kills in la5. Actually, killing anything in target reach inveronment with perk plane is a problem. Flying over my head p51 or 190 will hardly dive on la5 if some friendlies around, but it will 95% do if I am in tempest or spit XIV. They will tend to follow me in hordes for hours also. Makes getting kills in perk planes in some aspects harder, than in no perks. Not good imho, specially for people who spend hard earned perk poing on some plane, they think will give them advantage, to be frustrated shortly by fact that they spent their perks to be kills fast.

Pepe · « **Reply #29 on:** December 12, 2002, 04:59:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fariz
Sure, no icon is problem in computer game, though sometimes they are fun. Not a casual fun, so not aplicable for MA.

What I like to see implemented is gradual icons. At 6k it is friendly/enemy icon. At 3k it is type of plane (spit/f4u/109). At 1k range it is plane model (spit XIV/f4uC/109g6). After plane is "identified", icons stays on it till plane out of 6k range again. So if you know it is spit (plane was under <3k >1k), it is stays on plane even if plane >3k <6k then. Same with model.

I like this a lot

. Especially if we get rid of rangefinder under 1k.

Cheers,