He-111 Bomber

[vorticon]

yeah he 111 (or any axis bomber) would be nice

[hyena426]

wow,,that is very cool:) never seen the 4 engine model before,,,im sure it did pretty good for its self

and i wanna see the he177 in here too,,and as for the me163,,well the he111 should of been here way before the komet,lol,,,first german planes that should of been added to aces high,is the stuka,,,,bf109,,,ju88,,,he111,,,,,the he111 is little tuffer than a ju88,,takes more hits and carries a little bigger bomb load,,but its all so slower,,,and you cant have b.o.b with out the he111,,and like i said tons of times,,italy needs a bomber,,and the he111 was italy's favorite bomber produced,,but for production numbers and historical value it should be in here

the ar 234 should not be here sence only 30 of them were made,,lol,,and i think only a 100 comets made,not sure about that,,but i know there wasnt many,,,its funny that we even have to fight for a plane that was historicaly used more than most german bombers<~~its allmost like not giving the usa a b26 or b17

and anothere importaint plane being left out,,is the old pby cat<~~are long range daddy,,lol,,produced in 3 diffrent countries,,even by russian<~~it was one of the best bombers russian had,lol

[Wotan]

its great hearing what all the h2h moochers want

[TheCage]

You are correct Blunder....the 177 was a four engine plane with either two DB-601 or DB-605 that were linked together driving a single propeller.  Those engines became the DB-606 and DB-610.  The first of eight prototypes flew in December of 1939 followed by 35 pre-production types in November of 1941.   Of the first eight prototypes, six crashed mainly due to structural failures or engine fires.   Although the structural problems had mostly be fixed the engine problems still remained.  

The design factor behind the He-177, was the result of a stupid requirement by the RLM that all bombers must be able to dive bomb.   So the logical solution was a twin propeller driven by four engines to streamline the design, and allow it to carry a much larger bomb load.   Heinkel knew the simplest way to cure the problems with the 177 was to use four separate engines.  In his first attempt he created the He-274, but Goering got so fed up with Heinkels incessant requests that he expressively forbid any more mention of the project.   Heinkel obeyed the order but secretly started to work on the He-277.  

When completed and everything turned out as expected he told Hitler that this bomber could now meet all the demands for a new bomber.  Hitler then told him to build it and it became officially the He-277.   But July 1944 the whole thing came to a halt as he was ordered to build nothing but fighters.  While I agree the He-177 in the way it would be modeled here in AH would not represent the 177 plague with the RL problems would be a good bomber for AH.    But starting this threat was only meant to bring the He-111 in the game for the BOB in the SEA.  

There are many other planes that need to be in the line up for the SEA.   Both Japanese and Russian aircraft.   But during the BOB, the Ju-88 was a minor participant and the He-111 was the main bomber.    The chief reason the He-111 was chewed up so badly during the BOB was due to the lessons learned in Spain.   At the time it was faster then the contemporary fighters.    Because of this it was lightly armed with only three machine guns.

By the time the BOB happened it was no longer faster then the fighters, but the argument remained the same.   Another factor lay in the fact the once the British fighters engaged the bombers, they did not remain in formation but rather split up.   Everyone knows what happened to lone American bombers when they fell out of formation.   The mutual defense was lost and the bombers fell easy prey.   Secondly the Me-110 was not a viable escort (note: Had the Fw-187 been used it would of been different) and the Me-109's without a drop tank had only 10-20 minutes of combat time over England.   This left the bombers to fend for themselves where without escorts were easily shot down.

The same lessons were learned the hard way by the 8th Airforce later on with the B-17 and B-24 bomber missions flying without any escort.   It was the same reason the the British opted to fly bomber missions only at night in hopes to keep their bomber losses down.    Which brings me to the after BOB battle.   The Germans also started the night raids which also greatly lowered their loss rate with the bombers.    As a note here even the Ju-88 were no better off to the onslaught of the British fighters.   They too were shot down in large numbers.

[TheCage]

Wotan I pay my $15 a month just like you do and I won't stoop down and dignify a comment to your statement.

[hyena426]

its great hearing what all the h2h moochers want

moochers huh?,,i paid my 15 bucks a while ago ,,just because i cant afford it right now,,doesnt give you the right to call me or anyone names<~~~just shows your lack of respect for players,,just because they dont pay,,doesnt mean they dont want to,and doesnt give you the right to mock them for there opinion's

and anyone can say there peace on this message board,,if they fly aces high or not

[hyena426]

Wotan I pay my $15 a month just like you do and I won't stoop down and dignify a comment to your statement.

very well said<~~but i had to stoop a little,,jk!!

like it or not,,the he111 should be here,,its a popular ww2 bomber,,just like the liberator and pby cat<~~which would help out the russians sence they got crappy bombers anyways,,russians never made any good bombers till after the war,,,most of there bombers were slow moving pigs,,the he111 would seem like a hot rod compared to the stuff the russians flew for bombing runs,,no better than old cargo planes pretty much

[HoHun]

Hi Cage,

>So what your saying is that 2/3 of the plane set were a waste of HTC time?

No. What I'm saying is that aircraft capability provides a rational guide to prioritizing arena plane development.

>It's engines were totally unreliable, and caught fire more often then not.  

The same could be said about the early Typhoon or Super Fortress aircraft. The He 177A-5 was greatly improved in that respect over the early He 177A-3.

>The He-177 was designed to be a massive dive bomber which it could not do.

So was the Avro Manchester, which provided the airframe for the Lancaster. I never heard its history made the Lancaster any worse in the level bombing role, so why should it be that way for the He 177?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[HoHun]

Hi Cage,

>Here is a little known fact, the He-111 was upgraded once with four engines.   It was called the He-116, but never was used as a bomber.  

The He 116 was a completely different design from the He 111.

The He 116 was designed following a civilian requirement for a long-range aircraft, had wooden wings, and used four small engines of the 250 HP class.

It was lighter and smaller than the earlier twin-engined He 111C, but had at twice the range even compared to a He 111C with overload fuel, and a 50% higher ceiling.

Payload was 450 kg, not enough to make it a worthwhile bomber though it might have been a fair reconnaissance plane.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[hazed-]

Originally posted by brady
O god....

 dont get me started......


  I will keep this short, if for no other reasion as to safguard my own sanity.

 AH does not nead a He 111, or Do 217.

 If Ah is to get any new German bomber the He 177 is the only worth while one to model, any argument to the contrary is mearly a veiled atempt to argure for their favorate plane rather than what could be best for the plane set.

 Germany has a very nice plane set at present and realy does not neaed another bomber, Russia, Italy and Japan are all in far greater nead of somthing on this line than Germany is.

says it all. agree 100% . ju88 covers the same ground as the he111(very small loadout crap 7.9mm guns) and the do217(same crap 7.9mm defence guns.)

He177 is only bomber worth having (20mm and 13mm defences) as it will perform similarly to b17 in AH.

However an italian or japanese Heavy bomber would be acceptable i guess. as long as it has at least 6000lbs of ordinance and has better defence guns than 7.9mm or other rifle calibres.It NEEDS 13mm or similar or its torn to peices in MA.

[hyena426]

the he111 late model had 7.9mm guns and a 20mm,,and 4,100lb in bomb load<~~italy does need a bomer,,and thats the best bomber they ever had,,,same with russia<~~there best big bomber was pretty much the pby cat ,,because the rest of there bombers were old cargo planes and slower that dog poo:)


but the he177 would be nice,,,but will it have all the flaws the original had?,,i dout it,,because they dont model that stuff,,just the preformance chart<~~sure did great,,and carried a big load,,but it was a bomber that was doomed and killed too many of its own crews to be liked by anyone back then,,,still its a cool lookin bomber,,just a failed plane,hitler wanted every bomber to be able to dive bomb ,,so it could help his ground troops,,bad idea with a heavy bomber of that size,,lol

[whgates3]

italy does need a bomer,,and thats the best bomber they ever had,,,same with russia<~~there best big bomber was pretty much the pby cat ,,because the rest of there bombers were old cargo planes and slower that dog poo

i question your knowledge of \/. \/. S. & reggia aeronautica bomber A/C...
He111 h-series could carry more bombs than Ju88, enough to kill 3 hangars, rather than the 2 the Ju88 can do in - that might add it some popularity - they could carry 10 paratroops too

[hyena426]

i question your knowledge of \/. \/. S. & reggia aeronautica bomber A/C

 ok what did i say that was wrong?,,the he111 h model alone<~~numberd up too 20 diffrent models atleast,,,he111 h1 to h20 or more,some with strait wings even,,carried any were from 2000kg too 4000kg,,counts on the model and opitions it had,,,so about 4000lb,,too 8000lb <~~i dont know everything v.v.s. and reggia bombers,, but can you say my information is wrong?,,i dont think so:P

7.92mm Rheinmetall MG 15 machine gun on manual mountings in nosecap, open dorsal position and ventral gondola; (H-3) same, plus fixed forward-firing MG 15 or 17, two MG 15's in waist windows and (usually) 20mm MG FF cannon in front of ventral gondola and (sometimes) fixed rear-firing MG 17 in extreme tail; internal bomb load up to 2,000kg in vertical cells, stored nose-up; external bomb load (at expense of internal) one 2,000kg on H-3 or two 500kg on others; later marks carried one or two 765kg torpedoes, Bv 246 glide missiles, Hs 293 rocket missiles, Fritz X radio-controlled glide bombs or one FZG-76 (V-1) cruise missile

China, Germany (Luftwaffe, Lufthansa), Hungary, Iraq, Romania, Spain, Turkey<~~counties that used that plane,,spain used it till 1956

[whgates3]

just saying that the itlaians produced bombers superior to the He111 & the soviets produced bombers better than the catalina (especially when you narrow it to bomber quality rating for war on the steppe)

[hyena426]

what did the soviets build that was better than the pby cat in ww2 and was used?,,cat had the longest range of all there ww2 russian bombers and big payload and it was built in russian,,canada and usa,,used by every allied unit in the world pretty much:) the Petlyakov Pe-2<~~closes good bomber russians had,,fast kinda,,good bomb load,,,,but it had horrible range,,700mils or somthing like that,,compared to the cats 2,300 and a bomb and rocket load of 4,000lb,,its hard to beat the old cat<~~most mass produced flying boat in history