A sad day

[storm]

While many players are enjoying and laughing at the perking of the f4c i really didnt enjoy it at all.

Yes i fly the f4c since tour2 and do it proudly.You can call me all the names you want i just shrug it off.I have tons of perkpoints so this isnt a issue for me at all.I got as many kills in a C as in a D last tour.I use the C for jabo and still think it's the best ground support fighter there is.

The only reason i die is because i did a stupid move or thought i'm Mr.Rambo and try to win a 5v1 or thought that i could get away with a quick sliding HO,not because my opponent is flyin a laser mounted star wars
space fighter flying on train rails.


The issue that hurts me most is why everyone wants to balance the arena like this.The F4C is a great tool for newbies to learn gunning jabo etc in a pretty forward easy plane to fly.Many newbies use it and I think they should before moving on to harder planes.It's tough enough to get killed all the time...at least give em the fun to kill something with a laser gun..they might wanna stay through the steep learning curve.

How can a arena be balanced by a simple data sheet of k/d?Most of F4c's kills are vultches and not hard earned 1v1 or tougher
like the kills of harder planes.Can you compare a guy that vultches 10 planes and has k/d of 10 and a guy that shoots 2 planes in a 2v1 and has a k/d of 2.Does this show the guys skill?So IMHO numbers dont explain too much.They just hard evidence for people
who want to use that data for a specific purpose.It is easy to get a 5 kill sortie in a f4c...so what's the big deal with that.I know it's really hard to get a 5 kill sortie in a 109...but that's a pilot's choice.He knows for himself that he has achieved more than a 15 kill sortie in a f4c.Pitty that score doesnt reflect that skill.

Now it got perked and newbies have a hard time to get those.Ask a newbie to make a 4 kill sortie in a 109.Yes you can shout the D is the same....but still it is useless in jabo against acks.Newbies should move on to ACM when they think that HO's are becoming boring and that SA could help them more than just spray and pray,not because they getting harrassed that they fly a easy plane or are pressed into switching planes because they dont want to take the heat.

Mostly the whining comes from LW pilots.I respect all planes in AH,even the niki.I know how it behaves so i can prevent getting killed by it.Same with other f4c's etc.
But LW pilots are normally excellent sticks
that can kill a f4uc without a problem.I know that a 109 is unreachable for me,unless he does a stupid mistake.I really do hope the sky gets crowded in AH one day just with 109's 190's and p51...let's see what happens then.Ahh btw i forgot ost's too.Will be fun to see those 109's 30 mm trying to kill ost's

This whole F4c trampling,especially by the very good sticks is sad.It's like getting a opponent plane away with just clever talk and
not with good flying.For me the excellent sticks in AH should be guiding people that
newbies should look up to and respect.Now every newbie that wants some attention and respect is shouting the same stuff as the hot jocks.Many newbies are even afraid to fly a F4C just not to get flamed by other.
 It seems that whining against the F4C is the
entry fee to pay to obtain respect amongst the LW community...and that's sad

Now you got what you wanted.I'm waiting what will be the next target so those altitude flights dont get boring and you got something to vent on.


Ok now enough of complaining and a suggestion
to HTC and the whole community here.Why dont we perk all the planes according to rank.And perk em relative to their strenghts.So a newbie can fly em all and better pilot will have to pay for it acording to his rank in the specific area..ie fighter, bomber ,vehicle rank..not the combined rank.Maybe a stupid idea that has it's drawbacks too but maybe a
way to increase friendliness amongst all of us.

btw my 1st language isnt english so there might be tons of spelling mistakes and maybe some not too clear stuff.Sorry

<S>

[R4M]

For !$·"%· sake, some people simply dont understand?

I fly LW. I hate the Chog turbolasers. I hate the friggin plane, while I LOVE the Dhog. Heh, go figure. One of the planes is one of my all-time favorites while the other I simply can't stand. I've NEVER hidden this deep bias towards the Chog.

But I didnt want the plane to be perked because I hated it, nor its guns, nor anything else. I wanted the plane to be perked because this:

The F4U-1C has 27717 kills in Tour 15.

You say that the newbies ride for jabo..blah blah blah...nice plane to learn blah blah blah.

Well, the Dhog is still there. It has FOUR more rockets and exactly the same bomb loadout. And dont tell me that a newbie needs training on how to straffe an hangar,or the acks with 20mm cannons instead of 50 cals, because a 3 year old kid can do that even with a Mk108 30mm.

dont take me wrong, I was a newbie and I flew the Chog at the start. Of course I loved the four turbolasers (until I figured out why did my FW190A8 fly so bad,LOL go figure my newbiness factor!!!). And I can tell you what I learnt while I was flying the Chog. NOTHING. Just see around, point and click. Spray 2 hundred rounds and hope for a couple of pings to rip apart an enemy plane's wing. I used to get 2-3 kills each sortie this way. And I learnt NOTHING.

Do you want to know in wich plane did I learnt the most?...in the Fw190A8, with the old FM. The easy plane is NEVER the best way to learn because it causes bad habits. It teaches you nothing. And the Chog IMO, causes bad habits and teaches nothing but point-and-click, and HO and run.

In any case, the Dhog will teach the newbies better how to jabo. And how to FIGHT. Because they have four more rockets (giving better rocket firing training), the same bomb load and six wonderful long range weapons to straffe the acks of the fields, while not being proton torpedoes wich allow for instantkill (tm) snapshots, or otherwise suicidal HOs.


You acuse the people of whining on the Chog to get it perked. I say that if we whined, at least we got a reason. You say that the Chog should not be difficult to kill and I agree. The other day I engaged a Chog wich was on fumes with an almost full-loaded D9, and I beat it in a close turnfight. The problem is not that the plane itself is a monster ,the thing is that the plane got more than TWICE the kills of the second ranked plane (the N1K2) ,and almost FOUR times than the fourth Ranked plane. And the reason is that its' got too much powerful weapons.

Now it costs 8 perkies, so the usage will be lower, and the Chog will resort to ACM instead of HO-and-Run tactics (because in a HO they risk to lose the 8 perks they invested on the plane). Net result: better plane balance and better fight qualities.

I say that the only one here whinin without motive is you, because I, at least have 27717 reasons to say it is unbalancing.

You've got a Dhog in the hangar. It is the Chog's twin. Fly it, for cod's sake, and stop the old song.


[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]

[Wlfgng]

Newbie wants to learn ACM ???
fly a spit

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by R4M:
For !$·"%· sake, some people simply dont understand?

I fly LW. I hate the Chog turbolasers. I hate the friggin plane, while I LOVE the Dhog. Heh, go figure.

But I didnt want the plane to be perked because its guns, nor anything else.

<Rip walks down the path..."Hmm, looks like BS (picks it up, sniffs...) Smells like BS...it must BE BS>  
Liar liar pants on fire.  

[R4M]

Ripsnort, if you'd know me better you'd know that the Corsair is one of my favorite all-time planes. I have stated it a lot of times in this same BBS. And in fact the first plane I took for a ride in Aces High was a Dhog. Wich I promptly groundlooped  

And while I hate the guns ,I dare you to find a single quote from me claiming the Chog to be perked because it has big guns. I say that they have too much power, and have always said that. But when I talk about the hispanos I always said "fix them" ,not "perk them".

When I have said "perk the Chog" has always been with the argument of its massive usage.
Get your facts straight.

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

Hey, lookie what I found, an old post by some guys named RAM:  

 

F4U1-C is outbalancing due the fact that its never-jamming turbolasers make an otherwise perfectly normal plane a lazerbird.

either perk it. or give it true hispanos(with jammings, poor ballistics, gun overheating, etc). That way it will stop being outbalancing.

[DB603]

S!

 Why is this "whining" always put on shoulders of Luftwaffe pilots?There were for sure other ppl too that complained about the C-Hog and not JUST us LW-pilots...As Rip said..BS!
 It is perked for a small "fee" IMO.Not too hard to earn in a Spitfire,Tiffie for example.
 About 109...It is a hard plane to master(E-management is crucial) and definitely not for beginners,but what a joy when U get the hang of it.The whine is even greater at the Allied side when they get squished in their "Uber" rides by an obsolete and crappy 109  190 offers in some areas better performance than 109 and also teaches well B&Z,E-management etc.Not to forget the punch of the 4 x 20mm...
 And for beginners there are better planes to fly and actually learn something about ACM etc.Spitfire(for example) is easy to fly,has good firepower.It needs to be flown properly to get any results but the pilot learns to use the plane better...A boring point&click for sure is not the best way.
  And as last comment..The experienced trainers are here to offer help and tips to new guys.Ask for help and U get it.And I am sure many of us more seasoned players(not me  ) help out whenever we can.

 

------------------
DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34

[R4M]

Huhm.....maybe I fell because my short-memory on this one  

But my main complain to make the Chog a perk has almost always been the numbers. The hispanos are proton torpedoes, but I dont want a plane to be perked because it is too good, but because it is massively used.

See,for instance I've never (that I remember of  ) said I want the nik perked, even when It is MUCH bigger threat than the Chog for my flying style. And it has doubtful E-retaining,IMHO, aswell.

Now think why dont I say "perk it" when it is clearly a more difficult plane to beat. Reasons is that its numbers of usage, while high are not so out of bounds as the Chog's.

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

Oh, and here's another one that complains about the Turbo lazers and the FM, so which is it Ram, Turbo lazers? FM? Over usage?

 

So, if you tell me that F4U1-C does the magic dance it does because it is lighter because less
                   hardpoints than DHog, fine. Remove one of the hardpoints and let the Hog with only one. And add the
                   wet wings,too.

                   If you tell me that F4U1-D does HAVE both hardpoints as modelled, then the FM has to have something
                   wrong. Because only the change of weapons/ammo doesnt explain 100fpm more and the incredible
                   E-retaining that the Chog shows all day long.

                   Methinks that a FM revision is in order.

[/b]

[sling322]

heh heh...you were saying RAM....

[Ripsnort]

"If ya can't beat it, Perk it!"  

[Sandman_SBM]

Obviously, you don't fly JABO, R4M... the guns on the DHOG are useless for de-acking a field. As Storm stated, JABO aircraft often stay at the field and suppress takeoffs (vulch). This can possibly account for a large part of the disproportionate k/d ratio of the CHOG, the best JABO aircraft of them all.

I'm sure the actual numbers will ever be known... Too bad there isn't a stat on kills of gear-down aircraft.

Not that it matters, Storm and I have plenty enough perk points to continue JABO.

------------------
cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs
The SBM's are hiring!

[Sunchaser]

OK, just to dilute the perception that it is mainly Luftwaffe guys who harbor massive ill will toward the F4U1C....Thank You HTC!



------------------
When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?

[R4M]

Sandman, I flew Jabo on P47s and F4U1-Ds A LOT while I was flying as Ametz. the 50 cals are far more effective to deack a field because the higher RoF with almost the same range. And those four surplus rockets helped a lot, too. I know what do I talk about.

 In the Fw190A5 I fire against teh acks with the 7.92mm MGs because they have higher ROF aswell.

The 20mm is only handier when you have to straffe an hangar, because it does more damage.

 But to deack a field, the Dhog is MORE useful than the Chog (because four rockets mean -at least- 2 less acks you have to straffe, and the six 50 cals are if not better, at least the equal of the quad 20mm on the Chog).

   

So, if you tell me that F4U1-C does the magic dance it does because it is lighter because less
                   hardpoints than DHog, fine. Remove one of the hardpoints and let the Hog with only one. And add the
                   wet wings,too.

                   If you tell me that F4U1-D does HAVE both hardpoints as modelled, then the FM has to have something
                   wrong. Because only the change of weapons/ammo doesnt explain 100fpm more and the incredible
                   E-retaining that the Chog shows all day long.

                   Methinks that a FM revision is in order.

[/b]

yes rispnort?...and the perk word is where?

I dont say I havent complained lots about the Chog FM and guns. I say that I rarely (just 20 minutes before I would've said NEVER     ) said "perk it" because its guns or FM.

Just as now I say "fix the niki" and not "perk the niki"

Again, get your facts straight please.


[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]

[Vermillion]

Just to keep a rhetoric to a small roar...

To de-ack a field, the .50 cal is actually better than the 20mm, you don't need more.  Six machine guns firing at a higher rate and velocity (flatter firing arc), than four cannons, equals a greater chance at a hit (plus they disperse more).  AAA at a field will die to a single hit from just about anything, even .30's.

Now true, the 20mm eats up hangers faster than anything else in the game. But if thats your point, just say so.

Stick to the facts guys, not half truths and rhetoric.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure