Author Topic: The road to Buff-killing  (Read 915 times)

Offline Effdub

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The road to Buff-killing
« on: March 21, 2001, 09:01:00 AM »
"Once bitten, twice shy". Many "fighter" pilots seem to react that way when it comes to buff-killing. The end result is endless whining to "please dumb down a buffs ability to defend himself".

Oh, c'mon ladies... if the buff is too strong, your setup is too weak  

Key elements to buff-killing "should" be known to to our wannabe fighter pilots.
These are:
a) Patience
b) Fast slashing attacks
c) Knowledge of blind areas
d) Altitude
e) Speed
f) Fill in things I've missed so far

Even more important than "knowing" the theories is actually TRAINING buff-kills!
It is OBVIOUS that you'll die often to bombers in the beginning. No one can expect to achieve anything well without learning "the job".
What does this mean? Go fight buffs, die, learn from your mistakes, go fight buffs, get better, go fight buffs... etc

Mindset:
A good Buff kill starts in the hangar. The decision to kill buffs should be made BEFORE you jump into your plane.
Why?
a) Plane selection. Some planes are better suited than others for buff killing. You can obviously select weaker planes for the job too, but they are only effective when you "really" know what your doing. Make your life easier and select planes with good arnament,  climb rate and speed. I personally prefer the Spit IX (with the alternative gun loadout), because its a fairly good buff killer, but also can fight its way back if attacked by fighter escorts.

b) Setup. You'll need altitude to engage buffs. You have to figure out where buffs are likely to show up (forward airfields, HQ). Sure you can go after enemy fighters and jump the random buff that comes along, but 9 times out of 10 you'll rush into the engagement and die. If you limit yourself to buff kills alone for a sortie your mind will be free to concentrate on the job.

c) Situational awareness. Watch the buff closely BEFORE you do anything!
1: Is he manouvering? If your lucky (the plane is set on a straight course), the buff driver is afk while having the autopilot on and isen't aware of your presence.
2: At which range does he start to fire? If the buffer starts firing at plus 1k he's: a newbie (newbie = bad gunner, wadting ammo) or a pro thats faking newbieness  
3: Check six! The best buff-killing setup will get ruined if you fail to see his escort fighter...  
4: Make it hard for him! Come in from high above and aim for something offset from his turret - the BEST target is his wing. Fire at short range. Some buffers don't even know you are there untill they hear the pings and it's harder to lineup on close targets from a buffers point of view. Try it yourself! Fly a buff, check out the turrets. The framework obscures your line of sight.
5: How smart is this buff driver? Some buffers have great evasive manouvers to blow your setup. Make a quick decision if you are good enough to counter his moves. If not, abort or fight him anyways... as I said before TRAINING is the key.

Conclusion.
Buff kills get easier if you are willing to do your part. Learn.
Whining about a buffs toughness shows one thing alone: YOU want your kills served on a silver plate without being forced to actually develop your flying ability.
I feel sorry for you... if I had the money I'd send you a copy of Quake to satisfy your "I want my kills nice n' easy" mentality  
Introduce gun shake in buffs? Fine with me. As long as its an emmersion feature. Not to make a buff drivers life even more miserable  

p.s. I'm not a dedicated buff driver. This tour I've been in fighters exclusively.
I just welcome the challenge buff engagements have to offer.

Scores vs Buffs so far...
Against
B-17G 5 kills, 1 death
B-26b 5 kills, 1 death
Lanc III 3 kills, 1 death

Effdub

Offline Apache

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2001, 09:10:00 AM »
All well and good except for one factor. Time. You are quite right, you need altitude, but 1 buff can totally annihilate a field, you don't have that time luxury.

As I said in another thread, most of us here are experienced sim pilots and know how to kill a buff.

Offline AKDejaVu

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2001, 09:13:00 AM »
You also left out the part about having a plane capable of maneuvering at 30k in order to get the buff.

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Offline Apache

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2001, 09:15:00 AM »
lol DJ, good point.

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2001, 10:32:00 AM »
They really aren't that hard to kill - especially if you have a teammate to help distract the guns.

All you need to do is not decide to climb up to the buff from the low furball over the field. It really isn't that hard to position up high and between your fields and the enemy's.

Climb up and start your attack while slow and from the 6 and you are toast. Guaranteed. Make a slashing attack from high 2 or 10 and you have a really good chance of a 1-pass kill if you get guns on and keep them on through the pass.

The buffs only have turbo laser guns when you provide an easy target.

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
Yes we should all fly chogs all the time so just when the buff comes we have a chance.
As for "fast slashing attacks" well those dont really work anymore, a b17 can rip u up from nearly any angle now. You apparently have no idea what it feels like to set up a 400 mph 30C hi frontal acpect pass on a B17 then get totaly blown up wings ripped off flaming wreck by ONLY THE whoopeeED MOTHERdiddlyING potato SON OF A squeak TOP TURRET WITH ONLY TWO whoopeeED AH "50CAL" GUNS. Sorry guys but i hate this. Feel free to mute me BTW.  Its practically the worst part of AH IMHO.

Offline Saintaw

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2001, 11:37:00 AM »
uck ! Grun, get a "chill pill" or something mate    

As I've stated in another thread on the same subject "I can kill buffs alright, it's the little ones I have trouble with".
 I'll get it if I am patient and will maneuvre around him (Even if I have found more "smart" Buffplots, who don't let you in their blind spots... they will turn with you & keep you in a firing window if you're not fast enough)

Of course, I have only succeeded Killing buffs that are between 0.1 --> 20 K.

The maneuvrability ratio between an AH Buff & an AH fighter at high altitudes are well..."interesting". I have yet to succeed "buying myself a kill" at high altitude. I did get a few, but it was then pure luck, because all I could basicaly do was a slashing attack from the side...without movin' much(because, if you move you'll loose a lot of alt.)

I still enjoy a lot Prowling for Buffs with a 190A8.

Disclaimer : This High alt perception might change now with the TA152, but I haven't tried that yet, so I will keep it out for now.


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[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 03-21-2001).]
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Offline BBGunn

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2001, 11:46:00 AM »
Effdub: I think you covered it pretty well-my suggestion would to fly a buff for a while and see what works/doesn't work in defense.  Then apply that to offensive fighter tactics.

Offline mrfish

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2001, 11:49:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Apache:
All well and good except for one factor. Time. You are quite right, you need altitude, but 1 buff can totally annihilate a field, you don't have that time luxury.

agreed - by the time you set up the perfect attack - the guy has downed your base - sometimes you have to go for it

Offline Maverick

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2001, 02:36:00 PM »
There was another point left out. The buff will be able to out maneuver you at high alt (27 - 35k). They can turn and attack a fighter easier than the fighter maneuvering against the buff.

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Offline Vruth

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2001, 03:19:00 PM »
Effdub is WRONG, buffs that strato-bomb are virtually untouchable.  At 20k, everything is game, including your sister, but unless HTC puts in the Me-262 or Me-163, attacking high altitude bombers is 'impossible'.  The Ta-152 may be nimble at high altitude, but in speed comparison, it's a huge risk to chase any B-17.  Even if you come at him from 40k, why risk 50 perk points against the fragile 152?  


A few points..

The Buff has a TAS of 320 at 30k, while you may have a TAS of 350-430 (if you didn't manouver, climb, sneeze, or fart the past five minutes). That translates into a 100 mile an hour closure advantage.   Plus, at 30k your climb rate is dick, a whopping 500-1500fpm.  Now, throw that against a B-17 with 4 or 5 50 Cals aimed at you travelling in a perfectly straight line, it's bad news. For the bomber, it's like swatten flies with an sledge hammer, for you, its swatten flies with a McDonald's drink straw 10 feet long. Not to mention, at 30k, your plane flies like it just drank a full bottle of Nyquil.


Bottom line, Strato-Buffs are not fun to attack.  When I go Buff, I fly at 27-30k - so far I'm 30 and 1 (got shot down landing), and it feels great to buff high and not be bothered.      


Some countries, you'll even get arrested for going buff.      

Vruth
403 RCAF Bomber Sqn

[This message has been edited by Vruth (edited 03-21-2001).]

Ice

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2001, 04:47:00 PM »
What are buffs?

Offline Karnak

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2001, 05:38:00 PM »
GRUNHERZ says:

Whaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! Bombers don't just die when I look at them! BWAAAAAA!!!! Its not fair!!  WHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

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Offline Soda

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2001, 05:42:00 PM »
EffDub,
  Everything you mention is always good practice when attacking bombers but it really can become complicated by so many other factors that often you cannot use many/all of those points.  

To counter those points, bombers often:
1) Fly in the stratosphere (30K+) where they handle well and fighters almost can't turn.
2) Fly off the map so you can't even find them until they pop up right next to your HQ.
3) only appear on dar such that a G10 in max climb can get up to 25K before the bomber is over the target.  This gives no time to properly set anything up.
4) smart bomber pilots will turn to keep you chasing at their 6 all the time, something that they couldn't really do in real life lest miss a target off-course or break formation.

On top of that from all angles you are usually facing at least 4 guns from a bomber (B-17, Lanc, B-26), and the convergence is always varying to account for the distance.  It also appears that different calibre guns (like .303's and .50's on the Lanc) account automatically for the varying performance in ballistics.  It's like facing a HO from a P-51 when attacking a B-17, but your closing speed is, even with a nice dive from above, only ~250mph, not the 600mph+ you'd expect to get in a real fighter HO.  The slightly heavier .50's on the B17 also tend to hurt a bit more (be it more hitting power (i.e. velocity), or better accuracy).

I know this bomber thing has been brought up time and again, Effdub's suggestions are correct, but to some ace bomber pilots/gunners it just doesn't make much difference 1 on 1, you will either both die (due to lag allowing each side to get the killing blow done), or the fighter will usually lose.  2 fighters on 1 bomber, the bomber almost always loses badly if the pilots can coordinate their attacks.

I guess it's all a gameplay concession thought I wish HTC would look into it.

-Soda

Offline GRUNHERZ

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The road to Buff-killing
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2001, 07:23:00 PM »
GRUNHERZ says:

"Screw you Karnak"