Author Topic: Moslem justice (Read 1527 times)

Hortlund · « **on:** January 02, 2003, 03:11:18 AM »

These &¤#&/#% never cease to amaze me.

Father given 6 months for stabbing daughter 25 times

AMMAN — A 65-year-old father walked out of Criminal Court a free man on Tuesday after receiving six months in prison for killing his teenage daughter in Hiteen refugee camp in April 2002.
The court invoked Article 98 of the Jordanian Penal Code, reducing Hussein Ahmad's charge because he killed his daughter in a “fit of rage.”

Link

Dowding (Work) · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2003, 03:22:45 AM »

Seems more like an indictment of the Jordanian state judicial system, to me. This thread should be renamed 'Jordanian Justice'.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2003, 03:36:54 AM »

Dowding no.

The reason he killed her was because he thought she was sleeping around, note the virginity test in quted article. Generally speaking in the mid-east muslim this kind of murder very common and accepted. Kinda like witch burning was generally to christians in Europe - some 500 years ago. It's ok though islam is right on track, they are just over 500-600 years younger than christianity so they are at that stage.

Dowding (Work) · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2003, 03:50:07 AM »

The separation of church and State should always be something to strive towards.

This is still an indictment of Jordanian justice. There is no mention of Islam. Islam does noes not sanction the murder of offspring for disobedience.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2003, 03:57:09 AM »

Yea just like it doesnt sanction the terrorists... Sorry just like christianity failed a few centuries ago so is Islam - only now they have apologists.

Believe it or not I'd be the first to defend them as I grew up around muslims in my youth and my my best friend ever, we were like brothers practically, was a muslim and i know they are good people or bad just like anyone. However there is a particular cancer upon that religion in the past 40 years and they must be heald accountable to rid themselves of it. Aplogists like you wont help.

Dowding (Work) · « **Reply #5 on:** January 02, 2003, 04:16:15 AM »

I see the vitriol is still ever present.

Bad things are done in the name of every major religion. That doesn't make religion bad by association.

This is not an example of Islamic justice - at worst it's 'justice' in the name of Islam. And that is in incorrect since Jordan is a secular country, as far as I know.

Hortlund · « **Reply #6 on:** January 02, 2003, 04:26:58 AM »

Of cource this is an example of Moslem justice. If you want Dowding, I can pull similar examples from other nations whose state religion is Islam, and whose legal system is Islamic.

Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Syria...you just let me know and I'll drag up a couple of similar cases.

mrfish · « **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2003, 04:33:47 AM »

oh come on guy, dowding's not an apologist, he's just trying to be reasonable.

just because you don't grab your torch and pitchfork the second someone yells 'frankenstein' doesn't make you a sympathizer. or maybe it does- heil usa!- down with the moslems! sheesh don't put me on your list of infidels .....

this isn't a "moslem", issue it's a legal shortcoming just like we have here in jesus' own US of A. i can't believe what a herd this bbs is sometimes- you can post something like "all filthy moslems must die" and it's cool but if you have an opinion that actually takes some balls you get deleted or banned.

if i posted some thread about some trigger happy israelis shooting some palestinian school kids for looking at them the wrong way in some occupied west bank town and called it "jewish madness" or generalized about any race, creed or religion at all i'd either see the post deleted, get a slew of nasty emails or at the very least have to endure a giant line of righteous patriots queuing up to make the same tired, inevitable nazi comparisons and so on.

take one case from one country and make it an example of how awful moslems are and you're a hero though. don't dare dissent or you are right there with johnny taliban. come one lemme hear you moooooooooo for me cows...............mooooooooo oooooooooo

you really are a hypocritical lot sometimes.

-tronski- · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2003, 04:40:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund
Of cource this is an example of Moslem justice. If you want Dowding, I can pull similar examples from other nations whose state religion is Islam, and whose legal system is Islamic.

Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Syria...you just let me know and I'll drag up a couple of similar cases.

So, only Islamic states give out ridicolous sentences?

Tronsky

Dowding (Work) · « **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2003, 04:42:25 AM »

Jordan is a secular Islamic country and has been for a long time. You can't compare it to Saudi Arabia et al. Jordanian women do not have to wear the traditional Islamic headress, for instance. Your title and stipulation is erroneous.

Strict Islamic law as used in Middle East is used as a tool for the repression of dissent. The people who apply particularly brutal punishment do so on the basis of their own interpretation of religious text, for their own agenda. I'm not going to concede an old book is responsible for these excesses, and I'm certainly not going to make sweeping generalisations about a religion based on the actions of the law-making elite.

Hortlund · « **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2003, 04:50:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by -tronski-
So, only Islamic states give out ridicolous sentences?

Tronsky

How many western states condemn women to be stoned to death?

How many western states cut the sentence for "honorary murders" to 2-3 months in jail? (where the father of a girl murders the girl to save the honour of the family, usually the girl has lost her virginity before marriage, or she has a boyfriend the family doesnt approve of, or she refuses to marry the one her family choses for her)

How many western states allow the mother to live while she is breastfeeding her child, and execute her after the child can eat on its own? (if the child is the result of the mother cheating on her husband for example)

-tronski- · « **Reply #11 on:** January 02, 2003, 04:58:41 AM »

South Korea wants to try 2 US servicemen, who killed a couple of 14 year old girls, for negligent driving but cannot.

It would seem some Western states are quite able and willing to give protection to a chosen few.

But it's just so chic to bash the muslims at any chance lately.....

Tronsky

Thud · « **Reply #12 on:** January 02, 2003, 05:18:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund

How many western states cut the sentence for "honorary murders" to 2-3 months in jail?

I got the impression that the sentence was reduced because of the father 'acting in a fit of rage', not because of the killing being labeled honorary by the court. And you don't believe that courts in the West take such circumstances into account? There are lots of cases where someone goes totally berserk and commits some crime and the judge does reduce the sentence because of him/her being out of self-control at that point. Mmmm, maybe the Jordanians aren't so different after all, that must come as a shock to you, and of course especially to grunherz who prowls the BBs day and night for threads to vent his stupidity-born muslim-hatred...

Hortlund · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2003, 05:25:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by -tronski-
South Korea wants to try 2 US servicemen, who killed a couple of 14 year old girls, for negligent driving but cannot.

It would seem some Western states are quite able and willing to give protection to a chosen few.

But it's just so chic to bash the muslims at any chance lately.....

Tronsky

Hmm...lets see... a nation condemns a woman to execution by stoning because she was allegedly having an affair (testimony of husband enough evidence, the woman need not be heard in the trial at all)...yes, that sounds just about the same as a nation not being able to prosecute someone due to a treaty with another nation. (my bet is those soldiers will be dealt with by the US justice system instead).

You know, we are not able to prosecute foregin diplomats either...that should be roughly the same thing as letting a dad stab his daughter 25 times because she was talking back to him...or?

Hortlund · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2003, 05:34:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thud
I got the impression that the sentence was reduced because of the father 'acting in a fit of rage', not because of the killing being labeled honorary by the court. And you don't believe that courts in the West take such circumstances into account? There are lots of cases where someone goes totally berserk and commits some crime and the judge does reduce the sentence because of him/her being out of self-control at that point. Mmmm, maybe the Jordanians aren't so different after all, that must come as a shock to you, and of course especially to grunherz who prowls the BBs day and night for threads to vent his stupidity-born muslim-hatred...

LOL ...I work in a court m8, and no, there is no such thing as "well, the murderer was mighty upset, so lets cut the sentence in half."

This Jordanian sentence is a pretty good example of how a honorary murder is treated in those countries. The murderer is as good as always sent to jail. Normally between 3 months and 1 year. It is very seldom you see the court say something like "it was an honorary murder" rather they write stuff like "he was severely provoked" (daughter talking back to him) or "when he committed the crime he was in deep shock, and didnt really know what he did" (because daugher had lost virginity before marriage).

The way it works in civilized countries is that the frame of mind of the bad guy is often how you draw the line between Murder 1 and Murder 2
(Dont know the exact translation into english here, but roughly, murder 1 is when the murderer spent some time planning the murder, it was deliberate, planned.
Murder 2 on the other hand is when the murder was impulsive, without any deliberate planning etc, normally murder 2 is what happens when two guys get into a fight and one of them gets a hold of an axe or something. Or if two alcoholists are drinking together and one of them decides to kill the other one so he can have the last bottle of booze. Examples of murder 1 on the other hand is when some guy decides it is better to murder his wife rather than divorce her so he strangles her in her sleep. Or if a rapists decide he doesnt want to leave any witnessess behind)

Why are you defending these guys btw?