Tour 35 Fighter vs Fighter stats

[AKDejaVu]

Jebo44... there was a reason given by Pryo.  He said that anytime one aircraft is getting 30% of the kills in the MA, they have to look at perking it.

Everything else is simply speculation, the above is the only thing that was said by HTC.

AKDejaVu

[maxtor]

Originally posted by Puke
P-51D is king, as I figured it would be (it's too beautiful not to be),

Yep king of the chute shooters

[list=1]

• P-51D  -          298 killed by chutes
• Spitfire Mk IX - 284 killed by chutes
• La-7 -               282 killed by chutes
[/list=1]

[Jebo44]

I can see why the -C was perked. Yet I believe that some of the other planes need to be considered as perk candidates. I am not advocating we unperk the CHOG just perk some of the other planes that are popular today. Just my opinion guys and I appreciate your input.

[Urchin]

Ok, I'll bite here.  

Since the P-51D, Spit IX, La-7, and N1K2 alone make up 40% of the kills I guess they should be perked.  Perking would totally kill Spit 9 and N1K2 use, since they aren't fast enough to run away from your typical gangbang.  So you see Spit V use spike by about 50,000 kills.  Holy crap!  The Spit V got 60,000 kills this tour!  Lets perk it!  The really funny thing is that it wasn't even first place!

Ok, now the Spit V is perked.  Oh, and by the way, the Typhoon was first with 80,000 kills since almost everyone that flew the P-51D and La-7 switched to that.  So lets perk that to.  

Well, it is absolutely clear that we cannot have two planes getting 50% of the kills in the MA.  So those evil planes are perked now.  

But... now instead of Bore N Zoom Tiffies and P-51s... it is 190D-9s.  And good GOD, they are everywhere.  And there are a lot of Zekes around to now.  Guess we'll have to perk those also.  

Jebo, I understand what you are saying, I really do.  I'm just trying to tell you that perking the Big 4 (or 5) wouldn't have the effect you intended.  Unless your intended effect is to get the C202 perked eventually.  In that case it would work splendidly, we'd just have to perk just about everything other than the Spit I and 109E first.  Then the C202 would see so much use that, by golly, we'd HAVE to perk it.

[Jebo44]

You forgot the P-38....

And in one mans theory yes I guess that could happen.

Most likely HT will not act on anything that you or I might suggest. And they definetly would not allow for every single plane, boat, bomber and grass hut to be perked, because then the perk system really would be paying twice for the same game. Right? Sure but you knew that all ready. Didn't you?

Or it could simply turn out that the more advanced late war planes which happen to be more popular with the masses would be equally perked. Who knows maybe that would happen. But you know once you make a change like perking a plane it is set in stone and nothing can ever be changed.

I do not really see that perking a plane would kill its use, did it happen that way with the -C...no. The N1K will always be popular because it has cannons and is reasonably forgiving as far as flight characteristics. The LA-7 will continously be used because of its characteristics...so on and so forth. You see the pattern?

I see your point, but in all fairness I do not think that HT would allow the perk system to get that out of control. Maybe, just maybe there are some in the community that would like to see a few changes in regards to the perk structure in the MA.

[AKDejaVu]

I believe that people complaining that a plane used 10% of the time needs to be perked suggest they haven't been around much... in hardly any on-line sims.

The best answer to one plane being used too much is quite simply to add more planes.  It has been and will always be the best solution.

AKDejaVu

[J_A_B]

Also notice Deja that those requesting something to be perked almost always tend to use something else?

I think you're right though, the best way to increase MA diversity is to add more "MA-suitable" fighters that would attract players.

Even then, the AH MA is more diverse than any other arena in an online flightsim I've ever seen.

J_A_B

[Urchin]

"Most likely HT will not act on anything that you or I might suggest. And they definetly would not allow for every single plane, boat, bomber and grass hut to be perked, because then the perk system really would be paying twice for the same game. Right? Sure but you knew that all ready. Didn't you?

Or it could simply turn out that the more advanced late war planes which happen to be more popular with the masses would be equally perked. Who knows maybe that would happen. But you know once you make a change like perking a plane it is set in stone and nothing can ever be changed. "

Ok, you've made two important observations here.  The first is ironically in your second paragraph.  That is that the 'more advanced late war planes' are more popular with the 'masses'.  Now, I'll ask you why?  Why do you think they are more popular with the masses?  Since you, and everyone else already knows the reason, I'll answer my own question.  They are the most popular plane because they offer some significant advantage (or advantages) over 'early-war' planes.  There will always be a plane or planes that has advantages over the rest of the planeset.  The plane or planes with the most advantages will be the most used planes.  It is simple human nature.

The second observation (in your first paragraph) actually isn't a good argument for someone to make if they are advocating perking 'late war monsters'.  But I'll ask you - if you were HTC, where would YOU draw the line?  What do your paying customers get to fly for 'free', and which do they essentially have to 'pay twice' for?

[GPreddy]

Well they never perked the Spit IX and it was getting more use and more kills then the f4u1c was. At least according to the stats on tour 1 2 and 3. Of course the Spit IX couldnt kill quite the same number of enemies that the f4u1c could and does.

[AKDejaVu]

The didn't have the perk system in tours 1, 2 and 3.

[Jebo44]

DejaVu, sure more planes would be great but from your statement your saying that the perk system would one day be worth abolishing if the plane set reached a certain number. And that will never happen, or 262's will be ramapant. And I do not judge someone by how many flight sims they have played before...everyone here has the right to their own opinion.
If what your saying is true then why not unperk the -C, we have had more planes since the CHOG was perked so maybe your theory would work. Dont you think? And do you honestly believe that planes like the N1K, LA7 and P-51D actually are used only 10% of the time??? Doesn't seem that that statement has any validity to it. But I could be wrong.

Urchin your rebutle says it all...if the late war planes are more popular and better equipped for fighting in the arena then what exactly keeps them from being perk candidates....not a thing. Makes them prime candidates. Thanks for driving that home!

And for you second comment...I was only stating what HT would not do, at least I would hope they would not do. It was in no way connected to the argument. I.E. you apply boring witticism...I apply boring witticism right back.

[maxtor]

I often wonder if the whole eny/obj thing were extended to scoring how much more effective a tool it would be.   There are those not so concerned about perks (so the tool doesn't work on them) but they are often the ones that are QUITE concerned about scoring and ranking.

In such a scenario it would not be necessary to perk anything more.  Flying "late war monster" would not reward the player score-wise nearly as well as say a Hurricane 1-D in the same arena.  How many Early War planes do you imagine you would see then?

[AKDejaVu]

Jebo,  the point that you seem to be missing...

Any of the perk planes, if unperked would be unbalancing.  The CHog was unbalancing simply due to use.  As practical as it was.

The reference to experience had nothing to do with actuall flight sim history or knowledge, it had to do with actually knowing what it means to see a plane dominate or unbalance an arena.  I don't believe you have enough experience to really know... especially if you are saying that planes with 10% usage are falling into that category.

And guess what... those planes with 10% usage used to be more around 12-15%.  More planes... that number goes down.  That trend has been consistant.

AKDejaVu

[Urchin]

Jebo- I'm not trying to apply 'boring witticism'.  I'm trying to make you see the point I'm trying to make.  The point is that there will ALWAYS be a plane or planes that perform 'better' than the rest of the planeset.  Those planes will be used more often.  Those planes will be used more often BECAUSE they perform better than the rest of the planeset.  Lets say the only planes we have are the P-51D, 109-G6, Spit IX, C202, P40B, and A6M2.  Which of these planes will see more use than the others?  I tend to think you'd see a lot of P-51D's, 109G-6s, and Spit IX's.  So, since the P-51D is leading the pack, we'll perk it.  What will happen?  Do you think the P-51 pilots will jump in a P-40 now?  I don't.  I think they'll jump in a 109G-6, because that is the next 'best' plane for the way they like to fly.  So lets say the P-51D, 109G-6, and Spit IX get 80% of the sorties.  Lets perk all of them.  What do you think will happen?  Sure, for a while the C202, P40B, and A6M2 use will rise.... but to be quite honest I think after a month, maybe 2 tops, people will realize that the C202 is the 'best' plane available and start flying that more.

I really do sympathize with your position, because I used to feel the same way you do now.  Even now, I'd really like to know the 'sortie count', since just knowing kills and deaths doesn't REALLY tell us how many sorties each plane flew.  But to answer your question, no, I think the N1K2, P-51D, La7, and Spit IX (plus the Spit V and Seafire) probably get around 60-65% of the sorties flown.  Theres no scientific way to tell, I'm just going off the number of icons I see, combined with the kill stats that we are given.  

However, I learned a long time ago that it isn't human nature to want to 'diversify'.  If Joe Newb the 109 driver keeps getting killed by La7s, pretty soon he's going to be flying an La7 instead.  Why?  Because they are 'better' than his plane is.  If you want to see something other than Spit, N1K2, La7, and P51 icons, it is really on you.  Grab a friend, up something different... and stare at his plane for a while .

[Jebo44]

Urchin I understand that your saying that people will switch to the next best unperked thing, and then the whole episode will continue until the heavens become hell and vice versa. I however do not agree with that. Thats all. There is no harm in running a tour by perking, by 5 or 10 points, a few of the popular planes to see what happens. They did it with the -C and it has accomplished the goal they set out for. And I believe you have to look at the number of sorties and K/D ratio to be able to tell what planes have taken the roll of the -C. Your point of view might be right on or it may not be, who's to say. I would just like to see something different done with the perk system.

DejaVu great that is your opinion thanks for the input, however I believe you are wrong. First and for most I can not believe that the 51D, N1K and the LA7 are only used 10% of the time. If you can present hard undisputable evidence then sure I may change my mind. And once again I am not saying that the -C should be unperked, all I am saying is that some of the other popular planes should be as well. Not by 200 perks like the 262 but 5 or 10 like what we have seen with the -C.

Your opinion of whether or not  I have adequate experience in the game is irrelevant. As you do not dictate to me, or anyone else in the community, what the bar is to be set at for a qualified observer and participant of this community. You are a respected member of the community and I will always listen openly to your suggestions and rebutle. But you do not set the standard of whom is qualified to make suggestions...that is everyones own choice. If you think I am full of it then great, thanks, have a nice day and asta lavista.