The Atomic bomb...why we used it..

[Wolfala]

Originally posted by GScholz


I find it rather distastefull that after all the crying over 9/11's 2800 dead, some Americans still feel that the mass murder of 135 000 - 250 000 people at Dresden was "nessesary" and a "good thing".

GS,

I lost 3 friends on 9/11 - so I mean this in the most respectful way: go **** yrself.

Don't ever compare to something you have no experience with personally.

Wolf

[Suave]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
how can someone excuse the use of an atomic bomb against civilians?
and why 2 Citys ??? its a sad human tragedy.
****** wars.

Both of your question have been answered in this thread. Why didn't you read the thread before replying here?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Suave
The damage that was done to Japan with the atomic bombs is miniscule compared to the damage we did to japan with conventional bombs.

.

Exactly...

I read this book, forget the name, but it was written by LeMay, back in the 80's.  March of 1944, 100,000 Japanese civilians were killed in fire bombings, more than died in the Hiroshima atomic bombing. Total fire bombings of Japanese cities estimiate killed are at about 170,000.  This is miniscule if you compare the Chinese deaths under Japan control.  The Japanese in China were employing a burnt earth policy to control the huge areas their forces could not patrol, causing hunger death and other enormous sufferings to many millions of people. Some estimates are 20 million or more dead from the aforementioned.

[Suave]

Actually, we killed 100,000 bombing tokyo in one night. We basically did a "dresden" on all of their cities. There is a documentary which is an interview with MacNamara in which he talks about the firebombing of japanese cities. It's called "Fog of War".

[lazs2]

the longer it takes to subdue the mad dog countries like japan and germany of the 40's the more people that die in the manners that grun has described...  plus... in the case of at least germany there is systematic torture, slave labor and genocide on a grand scale.   I am sorry but a people that support that mad regime must be stopped.   the sooner it happens the better for everyone.

We could continue to fire bomb japan and then invade... causeing a million or so extra grisly deaths and prolong the suffering and misery of most of the world for another year or two but..  

forutunately we had the atomic bomb and the worlds suffering was cut short.

lazs

[anonymous]

atrocities arent reason nuke was used and shouldnt be. thats second grade playground thinking. dont think for a second i wouldnt love to carve up the carvers when it comes to atrocities but thats separate from using a nuke. civilians in japan were screwed no matter what. allies wait they starve. allies go in and invade they either charge to their death or kill themselves after allies win just like civilians did on okinawa. not from warrior sepukku but because japs convinced their civilians that allies were going to rape torture then kill them. jap culture at time made it so all to many civvies believed this. pretty amazing if you think about it. sadaam couldnt accomplish that with his people. if you look at how loyal japanese people were to emperor and how much they believe in him very impressive. nukes being used was way least civvies would be killed. i dont think for a second thats why the cic used them. he used them because he wasnt willing to lose the number of allied lives he was told would be lost if japan was invaded like all the other islands. got to tell you i dont know if i could make same call. someone tells me that its guranteed im burning up a hundred thousand women and kids i dont know if i could do it. but nobody here especially the highschool kid has the same information before them the cic did. no one was or has led a nation in time of war. and no one has had the weight put on their shoulders the cic did. no other national leader in history even. not one has ever been given option of totally destroy a city or lose "a million" of your and your allies men. anyone that says they know what theyd do and it would be same call is lying to themselves. and you cant ignore jap leaders. they knew there was no way to win. they were willing to sacrifice the lives of the people they meant to protect to maintain some sick sense of what they errantly thought was "honor". "our civilians will fight to the death while i sit in my office with my sword and day after day look at maps that show i have no cohesive units left to command". how brave. an accountant who somehow thinks that somewhere along the way he "just became" a samurai.

[anonymous]

ramzey im reading a couple of books on world war two right now. america was not only country who embargo against japan. english, dutch, and several others joined in also. and it was done in response to japan not abiding by naval treaty japan signed and also japans activities in china.

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by Suave
Both of your question have been answered in this thread.

sorry what answere?

its simply my believe, using WMD against civilians cant be the right thing! no matter what country.

what answere do you need more Suave?

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Agreed. Instead of 200,000 dying rather quickly in the nuke attacks any true humaniatarian would have preffered an invasion of Japan where millions of JAPANESE military and civilan men, women, and children would instead have been:

Shot to death
Bayonaeted to death
Throats slit in vicious hand to hand fighting
Suffocated to death in basements due to continued conventinal bombing
Slowly burned to death in bomb raids
Crushed by tank tracks
Crushed by destroyed buildings
Blown up by tank guns
Shredded by shrapnel
Decapitated by shrapnel
Killled by  artillery
Disfigured by artilerry
Burned to death by flamethrower
Burned to death by flamethrower while hidning in cave
Blown up by mines
Throw selves off cliff to avoid moster americans
Blow selves up with hand grenades
starved to death
Strafed by aircraft
Died from uncontrolled wound infections


Etc etc etc...


And I havent even covered the many neat and creative ways American and allied soldiers would have died in the invasion. All this in their hundreds of thousands...

So millions of dead Japanese, hundreds of thousands of dead Allies all killed together in a glourious 1000 times bigger version of Iwo Jima and Okinawa that the invasion of the main Japanese islands was to be!!!  Of course thats better than two nukes that ended the war immediately...  

What monsters the USA was in wanting to end the war quickly when such great fun could still be had on top of the 50,000,000 who allready died during the years long war...  To think, millions more could have been killed the good old fasioned way, but the USA chose to step in, show off its fancy new weapons like some cowboy and stop the fun of WW2 after only killing 200,000 more people....  TskTsk...

The monsters!!!  Stopping the bloody  invasion of Japan proper was the greatest warcrime ever commited!!!

for a second i thought i saw Grunherz posting Ghandi pictures on this forum
not long ago...
...err must be a different one.

[Golfer]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
sorry what answere?

its simply my believe, using WMD against civilians cant be the right thing! no matter what country.

what answere do you need more Suave?

Here's my analogy on your opinion.

Based on your country location I could say go F*** yourself you Nazi Bas***d.  It wouldn't mean I was correct in my hypothetical assumption in referring to you as a Nazi.  Simply put, its how wrong you are about your thinking.

Get out of your plastic bubble, put down your rainbow coalition flag, let go of the tree and take the flower out of your butt.

If you'd like to bicker about how paying the price of two cities saved the country and try your hot air revisionist beliefs that are based on...I don't know what.  Then lets talk genocide.  Are you proud of the many millions of Jews, Gypsies and 'Unwanteds' that Deutschland forced from their homes, into ghettos, onto trains, into camps and into the showers before they made it to the gas furnace?

You'll need more than a 70mph fastball to play in the big leagues here, sport.  I just took you yard.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
sorry what answere?

its simply my believe, using WMD against civilians cant be the right thing! no matter what country.

what answere do you need more Suave?

I'd prefer to nuke 100,000 Germans, Japanese, or Iraqi's than lose 1 American soldier.

[Gh0stFT]

Golfer, this is not a game i just telled my believe,
but you call me a Nazi, no problem i forgive you.

Martlet your believe is a dead end.
why should 1 life count more then 100000 ?

[Golfer]

You can't grace me with forgiveness for something I didn't do.  Hypothetical assumption was the phrased I used.  I've been to Germany and haven't met any Nazis.  So come off your horse of many colors.


Now I'm really calling you a ********.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
Golfer, this is not a game i just telled my believe,
but you call me a Nazi, no problem i forgive you.

Martlet your believe is a dead end.
why should 1 life count more then 100000 ?

Because it's an American life.  1 American life is worth more to me than 100,000 German lives.

[Golfer]

Originally posted by Martlet
Because it's an American life.  1 American life is worth more to me than 100,000 German lives.

Amen to that.  And Ghost feels the same way for Germany, if not he's either a liar or lacks any semblance of loyalty.