Author Topic: The Atomic bomb...why we used it.. (Read 10913 times)

hazed- · « **on:** January 07, 2003, 07:12:24 PM »

After recently hearing a player in AH say that the dropping of the atomic bomb on japan was wrong and that we should have finnished the war by conventional means I took the time to gather some facts which might change their minds.

The player was hammy and it seemed to me he could not be aware of what it meant to continue the war on Japan by conventional means.There are a thousand reasons why it was a justified action and obviously there are many moral reasons why it was and wasnt right.Here are someinteresting facts which I think he should be aware of.

In preperation for the defence of mainland japan the japanese people were told they would receive no mercy from the Americans and were indoctrinated into thinking that they were to be exterminated.The Japanese Army still had over 2.3 million troops, 4 million navy/seamen and aviators and they built a mailitia from the general populace which amounted to a staggering 28 million!

There was 1000's of kamakazi type weapons including piloted rocket bombs, speed boats, aircraft even manned torpedos!

The Allies planned to invade the southern most island first in 1945 followed the following year by an assault on tokyo bay

The estimated casualties on the allied side alone exceeded 1 million troops and airforce personel.

On the capture of the islands leading to Japan the resistance was more and more fanatical and even though some thousands of japanese soldies did start to surrender the vast majority fought until they were killed.

American casualties were severe.

When the atomic bomb was developed the Allies gave the Japanese a chance to surrender and it was unconditional.
According to historians the Japanese government refused.
Many civilian Japanese at the time wanted peace but the Army who were in control refused to accept it.
The first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and the allies again called for surrender.
After 3 days of waiting nothing was heard from the Japanese and so the Allies dropped the 2nd bomb.

Even after this astounding weapon was used the Army generals STILL wanted to fight on!.The Civilian government officials pleaded with the generals to cease hostilitiies and finally they agreed to inform the emperor and to let him decide the fate of their nation.After seeing what his people were suffering the Emperor agreed it was time to end the war.

Even though he was considered a god-like figure he still took the unprecidented step of broadcasting by radio to the whole Japanese population that Japan had surrendered because he feared a military coup.

Now for someone like Hammy to go onto ch 1 and start accusing the Americans of being wrong to use the bomb and to claim that a conventional end to the war would have been more acceptable astounded me.I can only think he really hasnt read his history properly or that he really understands the self sacrifice a conventional end to the war would have demanded.

Anyhow, I thought id post this small amount of information in the hope he reads it and decides to look further into the real history behind the use of the bombs.I too find the after affects and the horror of the damage hard to bear but i DO understand why it was done.I have no ill feeling towards the Japanese people as a whole but I do have a severe dislike of their methods of war and their treatent of prisoners.
I do understand however that they were living in a totally different society to the rest of the world and I understand why they thought the way they did.It doesnt make it acceptable but it is understandable.
After reading a lot of history books I have formed the opinion that the dropping of the bombs were a necessary but terrible action.I hope Hammy might learn to also one day.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2003, 07:17:56 PM »

Damn Hazed, you put a good amount of research into that.

Good post!
-SW

NUKE · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2003, 07:28:40 PM »

Let's build a time machine and transport Hammy back in time to the US Navy as a sailor who would be required to participate in the assault on the Japanese mainland. Ask him if he thinks it might be a cool idea to not use the A-Bomb and instead just go in conventionally. Ask his comrads what they think would be the right choice.

Something that stands out to me is that the Atomic bombs ended the fanatic Japanese attitude towards surrender and ended the war.

Octavius · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2003, 08:39:51 PM »

nice one hazed.

Was there/or would have been any consideration to use it on German targets if things had taken a turn in the wrong direction?

I know Germany had hard water production in Norway. If they had developed the bomb before the allies and things got conventionally desperate, is it safe to assume Germany would have attempted used it in a last ditch effort?

Jack55 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2003, 08:44:50 PM »

"Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans. We shall continue to use it until we completely destroy Japan's power to make war. Only a Japanese surrender will stop us."

Harry Truman
33rd President of the United States

Curval · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2003, 09:00:21 PM »

Dropping the bombs actually saved many more Japanese than were killed.

The resistance to invasion would have been fanatical. The civilian population were all armed and had been ordered to fight to the death. We all saw what happened at Saipan and Iwo Jima when Japanese civilians threw themselves over cliffs rather than surrender. This would have also occurred on a massive scale if marines landed on the Home Islands.

Dropping the bombs also saved the lives of all of the soldiers and sailors that would have potentailly been casulaties until the eventual surrender of the Japanese through "conventional" means. This would have included an invasion of Japan itself.

I saw a movie about Truman which highlighted the decision he had to make to drop the bombs. He was quoted in the film as saying "If we don't drop the bomb how could I ever look into the eyes of an American mother whose son was killed by the enemy, knowing I could have prevented it." If it were me, I'd have thought about it the same way and made the same decision. The only one he could have made IMHO.

NUKE · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2003, 09:06:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
Dropping the bombs actually saved many more Japanese than were killed.

The resistance to invasion would have been fanatical. The civilian population were all armed and had been ordered to fight to the death. We all saw what happened at Saipan and Iwo Jima when Japanese civilians threw themselves over cliffs rather than surrender. This would have also occurred on a massive scale if marines landed on the Home Islands.

Dropping the bombs also saved the lives of all of the soldiers and sailors that would have potentailly been casulaties until the eventual surrender of the Japanese through "conventional" means. This would have included an invasion of Japan itself.

I saw a movie about Truman which highlighted the decision he had to make to drop the bombs. He was quoted in the film as saying "If we don't drop the bomb how could I ever look into the eyes of an American mother whose son was killed by the enemy, knowing I could have prevented it." If it were me, I'd have thought about it the same way and made the same decision. The only one he could have made IMHO.

Hey....I actually agree with Curval

What's this BB coming to?

ramzey · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2003, 09:14:39 PM »

sry , im not understand

US push japs to war, and kill thousend 's of civilians to save them?

according to this, same scenario in iraque?

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2003, 09:31:46 PM »

Japan brought the US into the war...
-SW

-->he · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2003, 09:32:01 PM »

This has nothing to do with iraq.

hazed- · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2003, 09:32:45 PM »

There were plans by Germany to build a ultra long range aircraft similar to the flying wing you guys(US) built in the 50's. The plans were discovered and i'd assume had a lot to do with your development of that aircraft.

The idea was for Hitler to be able to bomb New York! If he had the Atom bomb you'd better beleive he would have used it!

There was also plans to try to produce a missile that could be launched from a submarine but proved too technically difficult.

Also a plan was submitted by a famous LW bomber pilot who was to use a converted LW aircraft that could just reach the US but not return.His idea was to bomb the US and then bail out over the ocean and be picked up by a Uboat.

The situation with germany was very different but who knows? perhaps the allies would have considered using the Abomb on Germany.I suspect though that even Hitler would have considered surrender faced with the prospect of it being dropped on Berlin but luckily we never had to find out.Japan as i mentioned was a totally different type of society at the time.Very much more controlled and indoctrinated even than the German populace.Its a scarey thought to wonder what would have happened isnt it.

Truman I think was a good man and must have wrestled with his conscience over his decision.I think for people to try to imply that he took this decision any lighter than any human being would have is totally wrong. It must have been hard to live with.I still feel however he did the right thing based on what information I have learned about the circumstances he faced.

Iraq is a whole other story, and im not about to get into that!

Daff · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2003, 10:06:48 PM »

I can to some extend understand the use of the first bomb on Hiroshima (But wasnt there a better target available? Military installations in Hiroshima were minor). 2nd one, no. The Japanese generals were swaying and a longer wait could probably have led to a surrender.
Question is, how much did the Russian invasion in Manchuari affect the decision to force the issue and bomb Nagasaki?
I highly recommend visiting the memorial peace museum in Hiroshima.

Daff

Toad · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2003, 10:16:16 PM »

Don't start 'nuthin', won't be 'nuthin'.

hardcase · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2003, 11:14:25 PM »

The idea was to scare the crap out of the CIVILIAN population. This was a terror weapon just like it was suppose to be. It was never designed to take out Military Targets. It would be overkill to use one on a base. Kill enought of the ppl who support an Army and that Army will think twice. So, the first bomb did not kill enought and the second was needed. I would have dropped it and not thought twice about doing it.

HC

ramzey · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2003, 11:18:33 PM »

Hazed im sure german would use A-bomb against everyone who stand on his way.
Imho 1 bomb was enough, secound needless cywilian casulties. For politcal effect only.

only that words scary me

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
Dropping the bombs actually saved many more Japanese than were killed.

Us troops was very close to enter japan, no wonder they are defend to death. Possibly US do same things if japs enter north america, sucrifice yourself to defend homeland.

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
"The resistance to invasion would have been fanatical. "

Every country do same things if not have place to step back and regoup to counterattack.
Japs dont have place to escape and come back.

I supose , u do sam things if german would win war in europe. And axis start invade america

Are u not?

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
I saw a movie about Truman which highlighted the decision he had to make to drop the bombs. He was quoted in the film as saying "If we don't drop the bomb how could I ever look into the eyes of an American mother whose son was killed by the enemy, knowing I could have prevented it." If it were me, I'd have thought about it the same way and made the same decision. The only one he could have made IMHO.

For many ppls situation with iraq looks similar like with japan in 40's

Make country desperated, show as evil, push them to attack us, win war and liberate.

On whole world we dont have saint countries and his govermants accros history.

many years ago in shool /in comunistic times/ we have "civil defense" lessions. In book was write about wars.
Book show 2 kines of war "fair" and "not fair"

"fair" when somone invade other country, and u defend yourself
"not fair" when one country attack other, who not invade them on any field

donno how u name war against iraq

dont think im pro iraq, or anti american,
But i really dont see reason to use a-bomb against civil people, same not see reason to war with iraq. And scenario of both looks similar for me

ramzey