Capitalism is a pain in the arse

[GRUNHERZ]

Do you understand that the communist idea of absolute equality is even in theory a lie and is impossible?

[Ping]

As it is a lie with true Equality in a capitalistic government as well.

There are some things that are not obtainable in any government.
There will always be those that try to live off of society and those that strive for power over others. Its a fact of Human existance.

But in no way am I drawn to Communistic policies or governments.

I just believe that Everyone should be contributing to society     ie. NO WELFARE

[GRUNHERZ]

Capitalism does not promise any equality in end result, it just exists to set up a sytem where one can move ahead through hard work and risk taking, overall of course. Capitalism is not an end in itself it's simply a means to an end. Communism always posed itself as a perfect guarantted solution, in effect it was the ends in itself.

In communinst ideas the term "equality" implies a welfare redistribition of income. Since its impossible that every able working individual produces exactly the same ecomomic output it naturally means the income of the more productive able working individuals must be taken from them and given to those who did not produce as much output - if you want to maintain their version of equality, which even beside that point is a lie.

Do you understand now why I'm fighting you on the idea that communist notions of equality and contribution are not noble.

Their idea of equality implies an extreme welfare system.

[straffo]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
And I bet every one of them thinks Castro is just too cool.

Yu know what If its possible to force an emotianal breathrough wiht that in a discussion of a nearly identical disaterous policy then so be it.

not likely

Some may find Castro cool but not all.btw I don't think Blitz find Castro cool I just said that castro was not worse than Batista and United Fruit

[-tronski-]

trotsky:

Honestly if it's so great in cuba why dont you move there yourself? I hear Cuba's politcal prisoner jails are just beutiful in the spring. In the summer they get too hot and the guards are a bit agitated but spring is poerfect.

And it's interesting trotsky that you as a liuberal who claimes he believes so strongly in human rights and freedom of exprresion likes cuba so much even with it's well documented human rights abuses and opression.

Urchin you should take note of this particulary. Trotsky obviously sees that the existance and prseservation some cracckpot socialist/communist socio-economic policy as exists in cuba takes precedence over human and individal rights. Otherwise he wouldnt hold cuba in such high regard given its vast human rights issues. You see how communists like him are inherently undemocratic and against the interests of people in general?

You got all that from: What about cuba?

Dear oh dear.... what a diatribe. Normally I would think somone was taking the piss, if I didn't know you as such a bitter little infant.

for starters, like it or not Cuba is a functioning socialist state.



Lonely Planet travel guide

In December 1991, the Cuban Constitution was amended to remove all references to Marxism-Leninism, and economic reforms began. In 1993, laws passed allowing Cubans to own and use US dollars, be self-employed and open farmers' markets. Taxes on dollar incomes and profits were levied in 1994, and in September 1996 foreign companies were allowed to wholly own and operate businesses and purchase real estate. These measures gradually brought the economy out of its post-Soviet tailspin. The US responded by stiffening its embargo with the Helms-Burton Act, ironically solidifying Castro's position as defender of Cuba against the evil empire.

The Cuban government has long been criticized for its human rights record; at least 500 people are 'prisoners of conscience' for criticizing Cuba's present leadership or for attempting to organize political opposition. When Pope John Paul II visited the island in January 1998, he condemned both the Cuban government's heavy hand and the US government's embargo. Each year, hundreds of Cubans brave the shark-infested waters separating Cuba from the USA, hoping to make a landfall that guarantees US citizenship and support from the wealthy Cuban exile community in Miami, Florida.

And why the lonely planet guide?  Because it was recommended in a local travel TV show, who showed holiday destinations in the Americas, including GASP - Cuba!!!!

Damned reds are just everywhere!!!!
Yep one step off that jetliner...straight into a gulag!
Of course that damned commercial TV station program did state that cuba did welcome western tourists, and it was quite a safe place to visit (not at all like your usual corrupt commie states - sneaky red bastards eh?)..huh if they like it that much they should go and live there!

And it's interesting trotsky that you as a liuberal who claimes he believes so strongly in human rights and freedom

I have?
hmmmmmmm that infection you have starting to really kick in there grubherps...

 Tronsky

[GRUNHERZ]

So in all that you managed to say that Cuba,  your mighty Communist wonderland, has managed to survive post 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union because they adepted some basic evil Capitalist principles....

Man o man you communist loving types never cease to amaze me, you say communism works in Cuba because they adapt capitalist principles.

Wow one must must give a big fat to the communist propagandists of the past century - they did a remarkable job infecting people's minds for decades to come.

[blitz]

Originally posted by straffo
not likely

Some may find Castro cool but not all.btw I don't think Blitz find Castro cool I just said that castro was not worse than Batista and United Fruit

Ahoi Ping & Sraffo:)

It's pretty useless to speak with him, he's just goin for trouble.

I know a guy called blitz and he said to me:

If there's wasn't that strugle for communism we wouldn't have had the rights we have now in the west.
Competition is a good thing and even capitalism needs it, ( i don't mean  economic )
But competition is gone after communism has quit...

Fidel Castro cool?  No politician is cool these days.

When he landed in Siera Madre with 23 men, throw outa dictator Batisa, who was supported bigtime by the United States, that was great.

Never got a clue why the mighthy USA with its high civil rights standards and cool dudes as Abraham Lincoln was, likes to support fascist or dictatorship regimes all over the word till the final end and afterwards rant about civil rights when the whole thing has gone south.

just to name a few:

done:Kuba, done: Nicaragua,done: Persien, done:Chile
 in progress :El Salvador, in progress:Agypt, in progress: Saudi Arabia, in progress:Kuwait,


Might be better to help before. Fidel Castro wasn't a commie from the beginning, but America don't want to  support him after his takeover.
He had no choice other then runnin to the russians especially after that 'Schweinebucht' desaster.

Regards Blitz

Flamesuit on