Author Topic: Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.  (Read 687 times)

Offline Swoop

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« on: January 14, 2003, 04:37:11 AM »
Posted on The Register.  

The British public is voting enthusiastically for ID cards, claims Home Office minister and long-standing Blair bagman Lord Falconer. Or at least, the "around 1,500 people and organisations [who] have sent in their comments" to the current consultation exercise have split two to one in favour, while "450 volunteers" who're apparently being experimented on are even more pro.

In a press release issued last month, Falconer gets his retaliation in early. The six month consultation runs until the end of this month, but it's probably a good idea from the government's point of view to prepare the way for Home Secretary David Blunkett's inevitable announcement that cards are going ahead on the say-so of next-to-zero UK voters.

It should only take a couple of hours to reverse the poll overwhelmingly, and there are simple step-by step instructions in how to do this at the bottom of this page at stand.org.uk. There's also a useful HTML version of the government's huge consultation document here,, but for the busy libertarian we suggest the government's own recommended executive summary for kiddies, available from the Children's Rights Alliance for England. Spookily, this registered charity, while not formally endorsing the scheme, closely shadows the government's own positive spin.

Overseas readers are possibly not aware that it is a long-standing right of people in the UK not to carry any form of ID. Granted, these days it needs a particularly determined and cussed individual to not carry anything that could be used to at least take a stab at identifying them. And in some circumstances, some people might argue that it might be a tad reckless to argue the toss with the boys in blue when they ask you for ID. But the point is that, because you aren't compelled to have ID, you can't be legally required to prove who you are merely on the whim of some individual or agency.

Nor, at least theoretically, will you have to prove who you are or carry ID if the government's proposals come into force. Because these will not be ID cards, they will be entitlement cards.

They're being sold on the basis of a string of advantages. Notably convenience, because you won't have to keep giving the same information about yourself to various agencies, protection, because they'll cut down on illegal immigration, identity theft and benefit fraud. Stand provides a detailed rebuttal of the various claims (same url as before), but there are a couple of gotchas that particularly interest us.

It's worth noting that the Falconer release pulls out retinal scanning as a particular move the volunteers favour. This to some extent confirms our suspicion that the volunteers are Trekkies or deranged cybermen-wannabes, but closely shadows the consultation paper's apparent inclinations. Fingerprints and retinal scans are both suggested, although as far as we can gather the consultation does not flat-out ask: "Are you in favour of compulsory fingerprinting for everyone who wants to access government services?"

No, indeed not. But again it's worth noting the volunteers think this is a good idea. The consulation document does make it pretty clear that it's intended to be a lot more universal than just a system for interacting with goverment. It refers to "any additional revenue paid to the Government by partners who might wish to use the card to help administer their services," (i.e. they propose to flog the system to the private sector, and suggests "library services or concessionary travel; clubs, such as health clubs which often use cards to control access to their facilities; rail and bus companies for season tickets; retailers for loyalty card schemes; other private sector service providers such as motoring organisations" as examples.

In its basic form, the card will be a version of a kind of passport or driving licence card, and these two themselves will be polished up in order to combat identity fraud. There are standards issues in actually converging the lot into one card right now, but you can think of the one that nails the people without driving licence or passport as a notadriving licence and notapassport card. The consultation regards the three as closely related anyway, and discusses how passport and driving licence would act as entitlement cards, and how fees for them could be used to subsidise the notanID card for poor people, who will then be in a position to prove that they are poor people. This will be done by putting the fees up, naturally.

It also whinges about the difficulties and costs involved in not making the card compulsory (it'll cost an estimated £1.5 billion anyway, and that's before the traditional EDS-style government IT project cost overrun), so it's lucky the volunteers are pro compulsion. Who are they, anyway? We look forward to being told this, and who the enthusiastic organisations are, at the end of the consultation.

Offline Dowding

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2003, 04:50:49 AM »
I'm in two minds about it.

If it stops scummy bogus assylum seekers moving around the country unchallenged, then I'm all for it.

Those Al-Queda suspects with the ricin poison were assylum seekers, apparently, living off of government handouts. I should think they will get legal aid.
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Offline Swoop

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2003, 05:14:24 AM »
Yeah well the problems are many.....


1)   it'll cost 1.5 billion of our taxes to set this up.
2)   BBC news has already proven it's a doddle to get your pic on someone elses ID card.......so how exactly is it gonna cut down on crime/asylum seekeers/etc?
3)   In yet another Labour spin bollocks example, the Gov is trying to say that  the British Public is overwhelmingly voting for the cards, when in reality no-one knows of anyone who's even been asked, let alone incidated they are in support.


It's just that yet again the Gov is trying to tell us to suck rotton eggs and that this is (apparently) what we asked for.

Bollocks.  I voted for the other fella.


Offline Dowding

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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2003, 05:21:29 AM »
Hey, you don't even live here anymore, you clog wearing, pot smoking traitor! :D

No, I do see your point though. Unless they are going to be fraud proof, they are pointless.
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Offline Swoop

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2003, 05:34:22 AM »
I DO NOT wear cloggs.........and I dont appreciate being called a traitor either.  :D




Offline GRUNHERZ

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2003, 05:35:18 AM »
How is this different than say a drivers license?

Offline Swoop

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2003, 05:38:05 AM »
Only recently have the British had drivers licences with pictures on them......in fact they're still not compulsary.  My drivers licence is one of the old style (plain green with no picture), for example.



And there was a huge uproar when the Gov redesigned licences with pics on, people said it was only a matter of time before they got turned into ID card........well instead of saving some money and using these new drivers licences the UK Gov has decided we need a totally new ID card that wont be used for anything else and will cost 1.5 billion.  

Hmm......


See, the point is that in GB you can leave your house with no ID whatsoever, no documents, no drivers license, nothing.  If a policeman stops you and wants to see license, insurance, etc, they take down reg plates (and then know to who and where the vehicle is registered) and give you a little form (er....I forget what it's called - slang term is a "producer") which says you've gotta bring all your docs to the police station of your choice within a certain period (7 days? - dunno off hand).  It's only a matter of time before ID is compulsary......and the system for getting IDs is seriously flawed.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2003, 05:43:57 AM by Swoop »

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2003, 05:40:02 AM »
Haha backwards limey bastiges... :D  Agreed really dumb idea based on what you guys say here...

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2003, 05:43:28 AM »
Quote
I DO NOT wear cloggs.........and I dont appreciate being called a traitor either. :D


Well, one out of three ain't bad. ;)

If you want a new drivers licence, you can only get the photo variety.
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Offline Swoop

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2003, 05:44:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Haha backwards limey bastiges... :D  Agreed really dumb idea based on what you guys say here...


Rephrase that pls.  It's "backward limey bastige politicians".


Offline Swoop

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2003, 05:47:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
If you want a new drivers licence, you can only get the photo variety.


Why would I want a new one?  There's no points on this one.......and the Cloggie policemen have no idea how to read it.


Offline Dowding

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2003, 05:50:26 AM »
Change of address, change of name if you found Mr. Right, Swoop. ;)

If dog chews it up or it gets nicked - or if you have to give up your licence like I did.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Swoop

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2003, 05:52:20 AM »
Granted, but right now I dont need one.

Anyway, drifting off topic here....  :D  ......the real point I'm trying to make is that again and again the current Labour Gov is saying this is what we want when it bloody well isnt, never has been, never will be and we dont remember being asked about it either.

/Rant

Look at student grants.  Gov cancelled all grants despite most SUs organising huge protests and petitions, what did they tell us?  Large percentages of students polled agreed grants should be abolished.  Bollocks, *I* wasnt asked my opinion.

/rant

« Last Edit: January 14, 2003, 05:58:36 AM by Swoop »

Offline Dowding

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2003, 06:11:11 AM »
I was a student at the time too. I didn't receive a grant because my parents earnt too much, but they couldn't really afford to give anything - we were middle middle class, the part of society that always gets hit in these things. I didn't protest.

My main reason for apathy (;)), was that higher education had to be funded somehow - Thatcher had expanded it without any increased provision. So it was either suffer a decrease in quality, or find the funding from somewhere. Now, either taxes could increase or grants would be abolished and more money would be available as low interest loans.

The part I didn't like was the revision to the loans arrangement - because my uni course started before the revision, I don't have to pay a penny back until I earn £21,000 a year. I'm just under that, at the moment. My younger brother, OTOH, started after the revision and he has to start paying back after only £10,000 pa, which is peanuts!
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Offline Swoop

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Brits! Make a stand against ID cards.
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2003, 06:40:19 AM »
Alternatively you could move to another country and send em a photocopy of your middle finger.