Need an opinion on Mini-14/30.

[miko2d]

GScholz: The FN-FAL is a battle rifle, not an assault rifle. It fires 7.62x51mm NATO, a full size rifle cartridge. FN-CAL on the other hand is 5.56mm weapon. Completely different though.

 Considering that only sami-auto fire is possible, how does it compare withm an M-14/M1A firing the same round?

 miko

[Airhead]

By the time Miko finally makes his choice New York will have a ban on ALL guns and the only firearm he'll be allowed to own is a slingshot. Good thing, given the fact he's European and can't be trusted to own guns.

[bigsky]

well first of all you dont need to spend a lot of money to get a good rifle. you sound like your looking for a medium to close range rifle because mini14/30 are. stop looking at rugers, they are CRAP. ruger hasnt made a good gun since Sturm died years ago. the last ruger i owned was a 10/22 semi .22 cal, i traded it off for a toolbox. you dont need a flashy expensive and in some states banned semiauto. i would recommend a winchester. i own a model 94 lever action .44MAG trapper 16inch barrel. they retail for  $300-350 new. with 240grain hollowpoints or wadcutter bullets it will put the hurt on moose out to 150 yards. its small and handy for hunting in thick brush. and fits easely behind the seat of pickup trucks including the small ones. and a old gunfighter trick with lever actions is to pull the hammer back with you thumb first then work the lever to jack another shell in. it makes for very fast reloading for the 2nd shot. there are other calibers too like 30-30( ballisticly similar to 7.62x39mm russian) and dont let anybody talk you into spending more than $600-700 for a bolt action rifle, more than that is waste. weatherbys are just a fancy peace of crap, grab one firmly in both hands and shake it, it will rattle and not the sling swivels. winchesters are good well made guns. i hope that helps you.
 bigsky

[Dune]

The FN-FAL (which, if you want to really split hairs is considered a battle rifle using the 7.62 NATO cartridge) is a much nicer shooting rifle than the M14.  Possibly a finely tuned M14 will out-shoot it, but between the two, I much prefer the FAL.

BTW, I own a full-auto M-16 (liscened with the BATF), FN-FAL, and AK47.  I used to own a Galil and MP 5.  My father owns two FAL's, several M-16's (a M-16A2, a AR-15 Heavy Barrel, and CAR-15) two AK's, used to own a M-14, HK 91, HK 93, AUG, and over 20 other full-auto machine guns.  I have fired thousands of rounds through these guns.  Am I an expert?  Nope.  But I have shot them all (and used them in competitive scenarios) enough to have formed an educated opinion.  

But opinions are like other things.  I love the FAL, my dad prefers his CAR-15 and a two friends of ours who are Federal LEO's like their HK's.

But, none of them would choose the AK as the one gun they'd take to war.  It's true the 7.62x39 cartridge is more powerful than the 5.56 and it's almost impossible to break.  However, it is crud, kicks more (especially full auto) than a M-16, isn't as accurate, is noiser (the dreaded "AK Clack" when you take it off safety) is basically the inferior weapon.  Like I said, you can't break it.  

Also, there are several reasons why the US went to the 5.56 cartridge (I don't know if they have been mentioned here).  It was thought the troops could carry more ammo, handle the recoil better and that it was better to wound the enemy than kill him.

[bigsky]

actualy after the army did a study and researched the records it found that most draftie troops were not engageing the enemy till they got very close (200 yards)and you know us po folks(poor for those not in US) arent willing to kill each other till its protect your bellybutton time and those you care about (officers not included)this was not the only reason. sgt. york was a good shot but they couldnt  get a bunch these quality guys who knew how to shoot at long ranges. after all what was the government offering in pay that you couldnt get in some dead end job somewhere flipping burgers
 or scrubing toilets. most people would rather scrub toilets than
 die in a rich mans war poor man fight. if you dont believe me look at the headlines to todays news. we are not invadeing north korea (which has no oil by the way) and see for yourself. to make a long story short get your hands on a nostler reloading manuel and check out the calibers. numbers dont lie like governments do. thats why they use varmit caliber bullets to kill people with (like .223 ) which are not good at long ranges.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Dune
Also, there are several reasons why the US went to the 5.56 cartridge (I don't know if they have been mentioned here).  It was thought the troops could carry more ammo, handle the recoil better and that it was better to wound the enemy than kill him.

Yep, have 2 soldiers carrying a wounded man off the field of battle, that is 2 less soldiers to fight your enemy.  

Dune, awesome post

Airhead, something tells me your right.

Miko, BUY A BUSHMASTER $600-$700.

Karaya2

ALSO, Israeli Arms International makes brand new M-1's to spec.  And are accurate.  I think the 888 model number.  It has been a couple of years.  

[Gman]

Multiply what Dune and his pops have by 2 and that's about where I'm at for rifles and f/a's.

If price is no object, hands down get yourself a Sig 550/551, we've been selling them for a year now, and there is a reason that this rifle has one every Nato test in recent years for best main battle rifle/assault rifle.  I'm not sure on legality issues in NYC, but I'd assume that if you can own an Ar variant you could own this.

Every rifle from Swiss Arms comes with a test target, every one I've seen is sub 1 MOA at 300 meters, and I've seen a swiss woman shoot a possible once on the swiss 300 meter course.  Only drawback = weight at over 9 lbs.



If price is important, take everyone's advice here and grab yourself a Bushy, since you can't own the DPMS M4's that we use here in Canada due to BATF restrictions on barrel length, lug, and teloscopic stock (unless you want to class 3 it, but then, price is absolutely a concern).


As for AK's, I've used them in the field and on the range, and owned probably 3 dozen plus (Russian, Yugo, Vepr, Norinco, etc), and although the reliability is unbeatable, the accuracy leaves MUCH to be desired.  5.45 is a nasty round, especially if you get 5.45 surplus Russian ammunition, but 7.62/39...well, the discussion about power is irrelevant past 300 meters with both the 7.62/5.56 round anyway, and both rounds will do a number on anything close than that range.