Author Topic: Affirmative Action (Read 8424 times)

capt. apathy · « **Reply #90 on:** January 19, 2003, 04:29:57 PM »

also I've yet to see an example of a racially biased question.

Thrawn · « **Reply #91 on:** January 19, 2003, 05:25:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
I'd be interested to know whether black students score less then white students in the same economic demographic.

capt. apathy, do you have an explanation for this?

“Today, even blacks whose parents have the same level of education and income as a comparable sample of whites score about 120 points lower on average,” said John Cloud in his article “Should SATs Matter?” in the March 12 edition of Time."

Black people aren't as good as white people at taking SATs.

Either the tests are biased, or the system of education, to prepare for SATs, available to black people isn't as good as that as white people.

Either way it's a racial problem.

Kanth · « **Reply #92 on:** January 19, 2003, 06:03:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
capt. apathy, do you have an explanation for this?

“Today, even blacks whose parents have the same level of education and income as a comparable sample of whites score about 120 points lower on average,” said John Cloud in his article “Should SATs Matter?” in the March 12 edition of Time."

Black people aren't as good as white people at taking SATs.

Either the tests are biased, or the system of education, to prepare for SATs, available to black people isn't as good as that as white people.

Either way it's a racial problem.

How you you explain rich intelligent white people's kids failing tests?

racial biased tests?

Thrawn · « **Reply #93 on:** January 19, 2003, 06:11:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kanth
How you you explain rich intelligent white people's kids failing tests?

racial biased tests?

I was speaking in generalities. There's going to people on either end of the curve.

AKIron · « **Reply #94 on:** January 19, 2003, 06:41:43 PM »

IMO Thrawn the explanation for the difference in the scores isn't cultural unless by that you mean a culture that places little importance on education. Rather, it is the failure of our public school system. It is a system that will pass a kid for convenience rather than insist they meet standards. Or reduce the standards which who can deny encourages mediocrity.

The answer is not to lower standards for a particular race but rather improve the level of education for all so that everyone can achieve the so called American dream. All people want respect but respect must be earned.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #95 on:** January 19, 2003, 06:51:22 PM »

capt. apathy, do you have an explanation for this?

“Today, even blacks whose parents have the same level of education and income as a comparable sample of whites score about 120 points lower on average,” said John Cloud in his article “Should SATs Matter?” in the March 12 edition of Time."

-----------------------------------------------
probably because their parents got their jobs and education through affirmitive action.

Thrawn · « **Reply #96 on:** January 19, 2003, 07:32:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
IMO Thrawn the explanation for the difference in the scores isn't cultural unless by that you mean a culture that places little importance on education. Rather, it is the failure of our public school system. It is a system that will pass a kid for convenience rather than insist they meet standards. Or reduce the standards which who can deny encourages mediocrity.

Do you think that the larger contributing factor is that black people in the US put less importance on education or that a similar quality of education is not available to them.

Hmmm, maybe black people in the US put less importance on education, if in fact they do, because they get a lower quality of education.

Quote

The answer is not to lower standards for a particular race but rather improve the level of education for all so that everyone can achieve the so called American dream. All people want respect but respect must be earned.

Sounds great to me. I'm not sure where the money would come from to bring up inner city schools, or poorer areas in general, up to the same level as wealthier schools. Increase State tax? Federal tax?

"probably because their parents got their jobs and education through affirmitive action."

What would that have to do with anything?

capt. apathy · « **Reply #97 on:** January 19, 2003, 07:39:55 PM »

what would that have to do with anything?
_____________________________ _______
Seems simple to me. If the parents had help from AA to get their jobs and education, then they would not have to be as smart as the whites that reached the same levels in life. Therefor their kids may not be as smart (smart parents generally = smart kids). Maybe people who are not as smart do not do as well on tests.

Then again, maybe the tests are intellectually biased too.

Thrawn · « **Reply #98 on:** January 19, 2003, 07:48:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy
If the parents had help from AA to get their jobs and education, then they would not have to be as smart as the whites that reached the same levels in life.

Just because they didn't have to be as smart, does that mean they weren't as smart?

Why then are AA parents not as smart as their white counter parts?

NUKE · « **Reply #99 on:** January 19, 2003, 07:54:50 PM »

A lot miss the main point regarding AA...... that is that it is un-constitutional to descriminate based on race for any reason.

AA could work legally if they used another means other than race. Economic and/or demographics for instance.

But to have race quotas or to give preferential treatment based soley on race is un-constitutional and I'm sure it will be ruled as such.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #100 on:** January 19, 2003, 07:56:15 PM »

it would seem that if they where as smart, then with the help of AA then they would go farther. therefore putting them in a different group.

also not all blacks would have had to recieve help from AA, to explain your statistic. just a significant enough number to effect the study.

I wouldn't know how many of the black familys in the study recieved help from AA. it's your statistic, I'm not even sure it's acurate.

Thrawn · « **Reply #101 on:** January 19, 2003, 07:58:55 PM »

NUKE, do you believe that all people in the US should have access to the same level of public education?

Thrawn · « **Reply #102 on:** January 19, 2003, 08:01:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy
it would seem that if they where as smart, then with the help of AA then they would go farther. therefore putting them in a different group.

also not all blacks would have had to recieve help from AA, to explain your statistic. just a significant enough number to effect the study.

I wouldn't know how many of the black familys in the study recieved help from AA. it's your statistic, I'm not even sure it's acurate.

Sorry capt. edited my previous post. I'll go and change it back.

Damnit, forgot the original wording of my post.

"it would seem that if they where as smart, then with the help of AA then they would go farther. therefore putting them in a different group. "

Who says they didn't go futher.

"also not all blacks would have had to recieve help from AA, to explain your statistic. just a significant enough number to effect the study."

Assuming they were stupider then white people, and assuming they past there stuipid genes on to their kids.

"I wouldn't know how many of the black familys in the study recieved help from AA. it's your statistic, I'm not even sure it's acurate. "

What makes leads you to believe the stats are inaccurate?

You are the one that stated that black people who gets jobs through AA are stuipider then white people. Which makes me wonder why you think they are stupider.

For that matter, why do you think black kids score less then white kids on SATs?

NUKE · « **Reply #103 on:** January 19, 2003, 08:06:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
NUKE, do you believe that all people in the US should have access to the same level of public education?

Yes I do, but that's not what we're talking about.

I was refering to AA being un-constitional and that to give preferential treatment or to descriminate based soley on race is not legal.

I am saying that they could instead base AA on demographic areas or financial status rather than race and it would be legal and fair.

Thrawn · « **Reply #104 on:** January 19, 2003, 08:15:05 PM »

NUKE, would you be willing to pay more in taxes for school improvement in impovrished areas, if AA was eliminated?