Author Topic: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds (Read 985 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2003, 05:53:19 PM »

The LVT-A4 floats better than the Panzer IV H or Tiger I. That is its use.

illo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 18, 2003, 01:49:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Grendel
cant....resist......comment........

WHAAAAA - Tiger IS Panzer!

Phhhhh....

Panzer 4: Panzerkampfwagen IV
Tiger: Panzerkampfwagen VI

Not that I can help in the subject itself in any way but... Forgive me

To make things bit more complicated.

Panzer 4, or Pz IV is not modeled in AH it is actually a tank destoyer build on PzKpfw IV chassis.

Here pic of Panzer IV/70

emodin · « **Reply #17 on:** January 18, 2003, 02:09:29 PM »

I thought that was a Jagdpanzer IV/70

Jester · « **Reply #18 on:** January 18, 2003, 07:19:18 PM »

It is.

illo · « **Reply #19 on:** January 19, 2003, 04:42:58 PM »

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Originally posted by emodin
I thought that was a Jagdpanzer IV/70

Yes, whole series is often referred as Jagdpanzer IV.

Offical designation of above 75L70 armed variant is:
Sturmgeschütz neuer Art mit 7.5cm KwK L/70 auf Fahrgestell PzKpfw IV.

Panzer IV/70(A) or (V), Sd. Kfz. 162/1.

75/L48 armed variant below was named...

Jagdpanzer IV Sd. Kfz. 162 (75mm L/48)

confusing..ehh?

devious · « **Reply #20 on:** January 20, 2003, 07:30:17 AM »

Panzer, in general: Tank. All german Tanks were Panzers or acronymed PzKpfw for Panzerkampfwagen (Armored Fighting Vehicle, literally)

Jagdpanzer: Tank destroyer (no turret)

They all had distinct SdKfz (Sonderkraftfahrzeug = Special Vehicle) numbers. Those would suffice to identify a vehicle type, a simple "Panzer" isn't.

Those are german designations after all

illo · « **Reply #21 on:** January 20, 2003, 02:24:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by devious
Panzer, in general: Tank. All german Tanks were Panzers or acronymed PzKpfw for Panzerkampfwagen (Armored Fighting Vehicle, literally)

Jagdpanzer: Tank destroyer (no turret)

They all had distinct SdKfz (Sonderkraftfahrzeug = Special Vehicle) numbers. Those would suffice to identify a vehicle type, a simple "Panzer" isn't.

Those are german designations after all

Hi devious.
Hope we get our A-6.

Here is how I understand it (In finnish these terms are similar to german in meaning):

Panzer=Armor (in its both meanings, vehicle/shield)

All armor.
Tanks, tank destroyers, assault guns, etc.

Panzerkampfwagen (PzKpfw)=Armor fight wagon

Turreted armored vehicle meant to combat enemy armor.

Sturmgeschützwagen (StuG)=Assault gun wagon

Originally mobile armored direct fire artillery. Later (1942 on) in tank destroyer role.

Panzerjäger (PzJäg)=Armor hunter

Selfpropelled ATG. Usually with only light frontal armor. Exceptions like Ferdinand and Elephant - PzJäg Tiger(P) which are more like later Jagdpanzers.

Jagdpanzer (JPz)=Hunt armor

Armored anti tank vehicle.

Then there is that all those MTW, KPW, SPW, LPW, FlammPz, FlakPz StuPz...hell.

(Did germans have some kind of fetish with these abbreviations?

)

gofaster · « **Reply #22 on:** January 21, 2003, 08:50:11 AM »

I'm hoping they bring the Sherman Caliope rocket-equipped tank to Aces High, if for no other reason than to counter the Tiger threat.

Shiva · « **Reply #23 on:** January 21, 2003, 12:12:33 PM »

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Originally posted by illo
Then there is that all those MTW, KPW, SPW, LPW, FlammPz, FlakPz StuPz...hell.

(Did germans have some kind of fetish with these abbreviations? )

German is agglutinative, jamming separate words together to create a single word -- instead of the three-word "armored personnel carrier", you get "schützenpanzerwagen". When you get terms like "2cm FliegerabwehrKanonevierling 38 auf Selbstfahrlafette PanzerKampfwagen IV" or "Gepanzerter Selbstfahrlafette für Sturmgeschütz 7,5 cm Sturmkanone 40 Ausführung F (Sonderkraftfahrzeug 142/1) Sturmgeschütz III", you begin to see where abbreviating the hell out of everything you can is good, just so that you don't get writer's cramp putting down the description of the vehicle -- particularly with the German fetish for making sure that everything is properly documented.

hyena426 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 21, 2003, 01:07:34 PM »

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just as it takes 18 Panzer IV H 75mm HE rounds.

it real life,,it shouldnt even take that much to kill a hanger.,,i live close to some ww2 airplane hangers,, a handgranade could allmost take them down,,hehe,,let alone 18 hits from any cannon,,,,even the battle ships 16 inchers have a tuff time taking down a hanger,,allmost 4 direct hits<~~that aint right,,, ,one 16inch shell would rip apart a hanger

but i think only reason aces high makes them that tuff,,is because the air bases on aces high are alot smaller than the real deal,,so they have to make it up with tuffer hangers instead of number of hangers on a field

vorticon · « **Reply #25 on:** January 21, 2003, 01:18:33 PM »

one would assume 88mm would be stronger than 75mm

Shiva · « **Reply #26 on:** January 21, 2003, 02:32:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hyena426
it real life,,it shouldnt even take that much to kill a hanger.,,i live close to some ww2 airplane hangers,, a handgranade could allmost take them down,,hehe,,let alone 18 hits from any cannon,,,,even the battle ships 16 inchers have a tuff time taking down a hanger,,allmost 4 direct hits<~~that aint right,,, ,one 16inch shell would rip apart a hanger

An 88mm HE round had about 3kg of explosive for a bursting charge; the bursting charge of the HC projectile for the 16"/50 guns on an Iowa-class battleship was about 70kg. However, blast effects go up as the cube root of warhead yield, so the blast effect of a 16" round is about three times that of an 88mm round. And look -- it takes twelve 88mm shells to kill a hangar, and four 16" shells: one-third the number.

Now, HC bombs typically have about half their weight as bursting charge, so a 500-lb bomb would have about twice the blast effect of a 16" HC shell, which means that it would take two of them to knock down a hangar. One 1000-lb bomb wouldn't quite do it, but a 2000-lb bomb would. Obviously, HT has tweaked the hardness of hangars vs. bombs in order to keep fighter-bombers from running roughshod over fields.

devious · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2003, 03:25:18 PM »

original post fuxored by damn hotel computer

devious · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2003, 03:28:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by illo
Hi devious.
Hope we get our A-6.

Here is how I understand it (In finnish these terms are similar to german in meaning):

Panzer=Armor (in its both meanings, vehicle/shield)

All armor.
Tanks, tank destroyers, assault guns, etc.

[/B]

Aye 4x20mm Mauser goodness !

Yes, Panzer literally means Armor.

Quote

Panzerkampfwagen (PzKpfw)=Armor fight wagon

Turreted armored vehicle meant to combat enemy armor.

Panzerkampfwagen = Armored (Panzer) Fighting (Kampf) Vehicle (Wagen - literally a "Waggon") - aproximately a Main Battle Tank

Quote

Sturmgeschützwagen (StuG)=Assault gun wagon

Originally mobile armored direct fire artillery. Later (1942 on) in tank destroyer role.

StuG = Sturmgeschütz = Assault Gun.

Earlier StuGs were primarily intended for the fire support role, later ones (StuG III dunno subtype) on for tank killing. By then, the concept of self-propelled artillery was catching on to Adolf. Germany had NO SP Artillery guns at the start of the war.

Quote

Panzerjäger (PzJäg)=Armor hunter

Selfpropelled ATG. Usually with only light frontal armor. Exceptions like Ferdinand and Elephant - PzJäg Tiger(P) which are more like later Jagdpanzers.

Jagdpanzer (JPz)=Hunt armor

Armored anti tank vehicle.

IIRC, only the (WW2) Marders were named PzJg, "Tank Hunter". Those were stopgap measures to produce something with the firepower able to kill a T-34 (but not survive a single hit from it)

Quote

Then there is that all those MTW, KPW, SPW, LPW, FlammPz, FlakPz StuPz...hell.

(Did germans have some kind of fetish with these abbreviations? ) [/B]

[/QUOTE]
Yes, it is kind of a german fetish....

It even produced the joke of Hitler as the GRöFAZ = Grösster Feldherr Aller Zeiten - Greatest warlord of all times

btw, MTW = Mannschaftstransportwagen = Infantry carrying vehicle

FLAK = Flugabwehrkanone = Cannon for use against aircraft

SPW = Schützenpanzerwagen = "Marksmen`s armored vehicle" = light tank

FlammPz = Flammenwerferpanzer = Flame thrower tank

StuPz = Sturmpanzer = "Assault tank" = a siege tank

The list goes on and on and on...

Jester · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2003, 08:53:42 PM »

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Originally posted by hyena426
it real life,,it shouldnt even take that much to kill a hanger.,,i live close to some ww2 airplane hangers,, a handgranade could allmost take them down,,hehe,,let alone 18 hits from any cannon,,,,even the battle ships 16 inchers have a tuff time taking down a hanger,,allmost 4 direct hits<~~that aint right,,, ,one 16inch shell would rip apart a hanger

The ships we have are not Battleships. They are Heavy Cruisers (CA) fireing 8 Inch Guns (about 155 mm) with HE shells.

Still if you have ever seen a 155mm HE shell go off it is more than enough to take out any "regular" hangar made - particularly since a turret salvo is three shells at a time.