back to the basics B&Z 101

[PapaFox]

Could someone please explain what "roping" is?
thx

[popeye]

The "Rope-a-Dope":  an attack maneuver that depends on the enemy misjudging your relative E state.  The Roper judges that he has more E and/or can outclimb the Dope.  He makes a low G attack, or fakes an attack, which draws the Dope into following the Roper's zoom or spiral climb.  If it all works well, the Dope follows the climb until he stalls, but never quite gets his guns on the Roper.  As the Dope stalls and falls off the climb, the Roper kicks over and dives on the helpless Dope, blasting him out of the sky.

(The name was coined by the American boxer, Cassius Clay, who would sucker his opponent into an attack on the ropes, which Clay would turn to his advantage.)

popeye


[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 09-12-2000).]

[PapaFox]

Nice Explanation, Popeye, thx

[Dingy]

   

Originally posted by Maniac:
It is alot harder to rope now a days, atleast in the p51.

I dont know if its the Combat Trim that helps the chasing plane to not to stall out when he follows in the zoom, or if its the new FM (e retention).

Oh how I disagree!!!  When beta started a year ago I started with the Uber-Mustang.  The guns were adequate, speed great and E fighting characteristics superb.  I remember Moss saying all Mustangs were opportunists.  I proceeded to show him how wrong he was!    

Then they de-modeled the Stang's guns and I gave up on it and found myself spending alot of time in the Niki.  It was a plane which didnt do well up high but could bail a pilot out of a bad situation by its accelleration, turn rate and high on the deck speed.

When the ammo load on the Nik was changed, I flew the 190A5.  It was a plane that combined characteristics of the Nik and Stang and allowed some good E fighting/turnfighting abilties.  Its slow speed on the deck however, got me in trouble more times than I could count    .

Then comes version 1.04.  After 20 flights of sheer frustration and poor flying, I changed my strategy.  I climbed back up into the Mustang and found it a pure joy to fly.

The three days I flew it, my country was completely overwhelmed by numbers yet I found myself racking up 3 and 4 kill missions easily.  I even found myself able to either reverse the roles if I were bounced from high with a barrel roll on a higher plane or disengage at will.  WEWWEEEE!

All I can say is that the 51 CAN rope and do it well.  It flips over very easily at the top of a loop and with a gentle hand, very rarely departs flight into a spin.

Perhaps my most enjoyable moment was after being engaged by a higher tiffie who only knew how to HO.  Rather than use his advantage to work for position he would turn head on, shoot and then separate and repeat as needed.  Each pass was countered with a low G immelman.  Finally, when the advantage was nullified, the Tiffie decided to dive and run.

Lemme just tell you, never piss off a Stang pilot and think you have a free ride home.  He WILL catch you if he wants    

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!

-Ding

PS...BTW, I have turned OFF combat trim.  I find I can do a better job of trimming the plane than CT can.



[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 09-12-2000).]

[leonid]

Citabria,

I've been thriving in 1.04 with the Yak-9U    I think the reason has to do with the particular planes I fly (Yakovlev & Lavochkin), and the new FM.  In both FMs determining enemy energy states was/is absolutely necessary for successful flying.  However, the new FM allows for more maneuver within a given e-state.  This creates an environment where more possibilities are open for combatants, making air combat even more unpredictable, more complex.  I love it.

Oh, and you made a post stating to never HO.  Well, I spontaneously tried a maneuver in this FM I would have never tried in the old one.  It was a vert HO, I was zooming, the opponent was diving.  As we closed, on a whim I did a slow 'cork-screw', and he missed.  In the old FM, I never would have had e long enough to have made that maneuver.  It wasn't a roll, but a cork-screw, with slight pitch input during the roll.  Maneuver!  

Hristo,
Tukiyo is a master of that Spitfire.  I agree he is an excellent flyer.  Excellent.

[sky_bax]

"However, the new FM allows for more maneuver within a given e-state. This creates an environment where more possibilities are open for combatants, making air combat even more unpredictable, more complex. I love it."

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh.........

now you all are starting to see the light  

Great isn`t it.  

Need balance though. 1.03 was like flying a brick. (WB P47C is the brick of all bricks) *IF* 1.04 gets modeled too far in the other direction you will have an arcade game for a FM.

The magic is inbetween.  



------------------
Skybax
328th Fighter Squadron
 www.352ndFighterGroup.com
Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney

[Spatula]

 

Originally posted by Hristo:

The problem arises when furballer meets the other guy. Calling him a coward just because he wants to fly like they used in WW2 ?

Yip, im used to that   The people who TnB and expect you to turn fight your mustang or F4u P47 190 109s with a spit or 205 or zeke are missing the point - fights dont have to end in a plane going down. I often end up in stalemates and just <S> the pilot and leave the area. A luxury mustang drivers have. People curse and yell at ya for 'running away' why just hand them a kill?  


 

So, who is better ? Tukiyo with his ACM or Ypsilon with his historical style ? I am not so sure. Even the best furballers with superior ACM die if you play dirty. Come with alt advantage or numbers to overcome their SA and that's it.

Some would say BnZers fly boringly. But who are we to tell them what is boring to them ? Is maybe our ego hurt when a BnZer shoots us down without giving us a chance to fight back ?

Some people can do amazine things in their planes. They are respected as ACM kings. Other have invested in different type of flying (more historical, IMO).

Being able to kill and live is a skill too. Sometimes much harder than just joining the furball and pulling on the stick.

Very well put Hristo  

 

Originally posted by Hristo:

I won't give you a fair fight. Ever.

Great advise.


 

Originally posted by Dingy:

I climbed back up into the Mustang and found it a pure joy to fly.

Shes a beatuy  

 

Originally posted by Dingy:

I even found myself able to either reverse the roles if I were bounced from high with a barrel roll on a higher plane or disengage at will. WEWWEEEE!

yup  


 

Originally posted by Dingy:

Lemme just tell you, never piss off a Stang pilot and think you have a free ride home. He WILL catch you if he wants

Thats why i like it so   I love people who follow you for miles out, well out of range of the friends, and then decide to turn back, at which point i reverse and run em down. Moral of the story? Dont chase mustangs...

Citab is right when he says you have to go back to the basics when BnZing. I have found that the 1.03-if-they-turn-they-die-cause-they-are-too-slow is no longer true. The BnZer has to be a lot more weary and really work his opponent. I think im just being a bit too cautious at the moment cause i still havent got the 'feeling' for the nme planes E state yet with the new FM.

I think i like the FM for some things (not tried the patch 1 yet). Once saddled up you in for a wicked ride of plenty of black-outs and sweaty palms. lots more fun.

BIG <S> to HTC and all my fellow AH pilots.

 


------------------
Overlord Spatula

if you adhere to all the rules you miss out on all the fun
 

=357th Pony Express=

[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 09-13-2000).]

[funked]

Just hope the guy isn't driving a Tiffy.  On the deck the Tiffy will run down the Runstang without even breathing hard.  

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by funked:
Just hope the guy isn't driving a Tiffy.  On the deck the Tiffy will run down the Runstang without even breathing hard.    

Maybe if the Stang hasnt worked up to full speed Funked.  I had a little under a quarter of a tank of fuel left and ran the Tiffie down in about 20-25 miles.   The speeds on the deck are close but the Mustang DOES seem to have the edge.  Maybe he used all his WEP on the HOs, dunno.  I had about 4 minutes of WEP to close with him once he tried to disengage.

--Ding

[funked]

Dingy, if you see me online, we can go race in the TA.  The only way the Mustang can get the Tiffy is if he has WEP and the Tiffy doesn't.  We'll race for pink slips.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 09-13-2000).]