Author Topic: Evolution is a myth  (Read 4063 times)

Offline Arfann

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2003, 10:06:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Until they are on their deathbed and they find their faith.


Yeah, or in a foxhole, right?  

GronK

Offline myelo

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2003, 10:12:10 AM »
For those interested, the entire article is available at:

Nature article

And a more accessible commentary from that issue at:
summary
It even mentions the aerodynamics.

Just wanted to get that in before this thread gets rolling (downhill, most likely).
myelo
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Offline Naso

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2003, 10:15:28 AM »
Whohoooo!!!!

Here we go again!!!!!!!

:D

1000 posts this time!!!!!

Offline Erlkonig

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2003, 10:17:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Leave it to Sandman to foul (Fowl!) up a good story on evolution by taking a crack at people with faith.:rolleyes:

Again, the non-believers are always on the offensive.  Insecurity.


Don't be so pessimistic, Ripsnort.  Not every religious person is an idiot.

Offline 2Slow

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2003, 10:18:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
God had a hangover?


More like a sense of humor.
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Offline 2Slow

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2003, 10:20:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
IMHO... evolution is fact... regardless of the presence or absence of a supreme being.


Since when?  I think it is still called a theory.  Show me an evolution event in progress.
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Offline Sandman

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2003, 10:37:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2Slow
Since when?  I think it is still called a theory.  Show me an evolution event in progress.


Quote
Today, nearly all biologists acknowledge that evolution is a fact. The term theory is no longer appropriate except when referring to the various models that attempt to explain how life evolves... it is important to understand that the current questions about how life evolves in no way implies any disagreement over the fact of evolution.
- Neil A. Campbell, Biology 2nd ed., 1990, Benjamin/Cummings


Fact: There are major life forms on the planet today that were not present in the past.

Fact: There are major life forms of the past that are no longer living.

Fact: All living forms come from previous living forms.

Conclusion: All present forms of life arose from previous forms that were different.

The mechanism that made all this possible is the theory part. Evolution does indeed happen. The theory is in trying to explain how.
sand

Offline MrLars

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2003, 11:12:01 AM »
They just discovered a small four winged dinosaur fossil...never been seen before and it lends more proof that birds evolved from dinosaurs...interesting find!

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAWFBYN9BD.html
« Last Edit: January 24, 2003, 11:16:15 AM by MrLars »

Offline lord dolf vader

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2003, 11:36:35 AM »
if i was an adult takeing the book of genisis seriously as literal truth.

id figure i had much bigger problems than thinkin evolution is not a fact.



"Dont let simple stories written by mortal men deceive you, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

yeager

friggin priceless.

Offline midnight Target

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2003, 11:38:30 AM »
MrLars... that may be the funniest post in the thread.

:D

Offline Sandman

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2003, 11:51:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
MrLars... that may be the funniest post in the thread.

:D


I must agree... :D
sand

Offline miko2d

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2003, 11:51:54 AM »
BEVO: try explaining the duck billed platapus

 Design by committee?

2Slow: Since when? I think it is still called a theory.

 Theory is fact - by definition. The word you have in mind is "hypothesis". Here is how it works for scientists, on the scale of confidence:

 "Theory = Fact" > "Hypothesis" > "Speculation" > "Guess"

 miko

Offline StSanta

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2003, 12:11:09 PM »
Heh, if this keeps up, I am gonna read The Blind Watchmaker again.

Offline hblair

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2003, 12:26:22 PM »
But is it real this time? ;)

Offline Sabre

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Evolution is a myth
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2003, 01:19:35 PM »
From Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary…
theory  1: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another   2: abstract thought : SPECULATION  3: the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art  4 a: a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action  b: an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances – often used in the phrase in theory  5: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle of body of principles offered to expain phenomena  6: an unproved assumption”

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with the notion that Evolution is a fact.  Evolution is a theory (and a theory is not a fact) that happens to fit the available facts as interpreted by humans with incomplete, imperfect knowledge.  Many biologists may “accept” Evolution as fact, but that does not make it so.  Deciding something is true by consensus does not make it irrefutable fact.  The problem with proving or disproving Evolution is that we have not been able to observe it in action.  Recorded human history simply is not long enough.  We have not been able to observe the spontaneous transformation of a glob of primordial sludge into a simple life form, and from there into a slightly more complex one, and then into an even more complex one, and so forth.  Unless you can observe the opening process of Evolution, it’s all just theory.  We have probably observed mutation and adaptation of species, and we’ve certainly observed extinction; however, not the creation of a new type of life form from a radically different precursor.  Neither can you prove or disprove Creationism.  Creationism can also fit the facts, depending on how that theory is presented.  Now understand, that I am an educated, scientific-type person.  I hold a master’s in EE, and yet do not have a difficult time reconciling my scientific training with my belief in God.

There are some assumptions that go with any theory, and Creationism is no different.  First, you have to assume that God (who for the sake of argument we’ll assume is the architect of Creation) has an understanding of science and the universe that far exceeds what humans have managed thus far.  Here’s an analogy for you: I am not a mineralogist.  Hence, I could not tell a manufactured diamond from one that was dug out of the earth and cut and polished to match it.  Why?  I lack the knowledge necessary to do so.  Since we (human beings) are continuously learning new things about the natural universe, it is a safe assumption that we do not understand everything (not even close).  So, when we determine the age of some object in geological terms as 1,000,000 years, how do we know we’re correct?  Perhaps the artist who created that object simply used process we cannot comprehend, which our primitive (by His standards) scientific methods simply cannot account for.

Why all the earlier (by our reckoning, anyway) species like dinosaurs, Cro-Magnon man, and prehistoric horses and such littering the natural history museums?  Well, one could hypothesize that even God follows natural rules when creating.  The Bible only tells us that “God created the heavens and the earth,” not how he managed it.  Perhaps all those earlier species are the leftovers from the processes God used to make the species here on Earth today.  A sculptor (or an engineer for that matter) often goes from an idea in his/her head to a sketch, then to a wooden carving or clay model, then to the finished product of sculpted stone.  Think of them as shavings from God’s workbench, or prototypes of the more refined finished product.  God, the ultimate artist and engineer!

Scientists have put the age of the Earth at something like 4 billion years (or something like that...I can never remember), but how can they be sure?  I work with satellites (yes, Momma did in fact raise at least one rocket scientist :)), and we often pre-age components before sending them into space.  We do this to insure stable and predictable performance once on-orbit, and to insure reliability (we call that “getting beyond the bathtub curve).  The very fact that species all fit so well into the natural balance argues for a guiding intelligence.  If you want to set up a complex system to run with minimal operator input, why wouldn’t you design something like adaptation into it?  Then there’s the natural tendency for things to go break down, rather than build up.  Entropy and Chaos theory may not eliminate Evolution as a possible mechanism, but it certainly makes it less likely.  Natural processes tend to go from the more complex to the less complex (like erosion and decomposition for example), and are certainly more typical and widespread then ones moving in the opposite direction.

In the final analysis, you can accept and believe Evolution, trusting in mankind’s limited and woefully incomplete understanding of the universe; or you can ask God.  The promise that He made was that if you seek knowledge and wisdom, and ask him with pure and sincere intent, that he will answer.  Now before any of the atheists call me gullible and naive, let me pose a final question to you.  If you are so willing to accept the opinions of fallible human scientists you’ve never met, am I then any more gullible and naïve to accept the promptings and inspiration of a God I’ve never met?  Just food for thought.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2003, 01:24:35 PM by Sabre »
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