Author Topic: Bomber Whine Inbound...Launch 163's!!! (Read 1356 times)

Reschke · « **Reply #15 on:** January 26, 2003, 04:25:03 PM »

I think you hit the nail on the head there Pongo. If you could ever get the cooperation of any squadron whether they were large or small to make some low alt strikes on radars along the flight path. Then you would be able to slide right on through the enemy with virtually no interference.

Although I seriously doubt you will ever see that type of cooperation within the MA. Not only because the numbers rotate out so quickly but because of the sheer number of egos that hover around in there as well. No one wants to be a follower; instead the majority want to be a virtual Hap Arnold, Douglas McArthur and Chester Nimitz.

muckmaw · « **Reply #16 on:** January 26, 2003, 10:41:13 PM »

Some good ideas here. Sounds to me like better planning will go a long way in the future.

I wish I could post the shots I took of the formation (And the 24 Craters AROUND the target) but I can't seem to get them to work.

Anyway, thanks for the pointers.

Frost · « **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2003, 11:30:35 PM »

I for one love flying the Komet to intercept HQ raids. They have little chance of getting through nowdays if you can up a number of people in those nasty little rockets.

But as much fun as they are to fly, I would have to agree that something needs to be done to limit the number either by perk cost or max number of Komets available. With Komets as available as they are HQ raids are generally useless.

Sure there are tactics to try and keep them on the ground, but that just tips the country off. If I see that someone just porked the Komet's field then it's a pretty sure indicator that a raid is coming. A preliminary raid to pork fuel normally would have to come at least 10 minutes ahead of time to catch the Komets before they took off. This just gives the country enough advance notice to get prop fighters up to alt. Or it gives them enough time to resupply the fuel.

I love the Komet, but it wouldn't bother me at all to see the number of Komets available to a country limited to 3 or so. Just my opinion.

zipity · « **Reply #18 on:** January 27, 2003, 12:36:17 AM »

I was in a p51-d that got 2 of those b17s. One thing muck didn't mention was that the entire force of b17s flew directly over a10. The initial battle took place as the b17s arrived over that base. By the time the 163s showed up the mission was already fairly well chewed. A number of the jabos/escorts arrived at a10 after the bombers had already passed over.

The point is that even if you can't take the radar out in advance, you can see exactly where the radar zone is and should attempt to fly around it. Unfortunately because HTC doesn't like anyone to be surprised, you still would have shown up on bar dar.

All that said, I'm with you on turning in the bomber wings. I fly for DHBG and although I like the new bomb site, I hate what they've done to the bomber. I see the 163 as an alternative to endless no talent quake style furballing and it keeps me interested between squad nights. Salute fellow frustrated bombers.

Kweassa · « **Reply #19 on:** January 27, 2003, 01:07:03 AM »

It could also be something about timing.

I made a pass at Bish HQ, knocked the dot dars down, and returned home safely, yesterday. Ofcourse, the 'return home' had a lot to do with luck, but I made the drop against HQ totally unchallenged, and only on my way home, did I meet opposing enemy fighters.

It was simple. The Rook Operation: "Pied Piper", successfully commenced with the lead of our illustrious Whels,

at P14 and TG15 area just simply drew vast hoardes of Bish into one spot, and kept them tied up in a mindless suicidal run for hours.

Slipping through a small hole in their radar coverage, and getting within 25 miles of their HQ was a piece of cake.

....

Maybe the 'when' part is as iportant as the 'how' part.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2003, 01:16:32 AM »

For the record, let me state (and I have the screenshots to prove it), I have shot down 4 Me163s in a single B17 sortie.

I was one of the 163s that attacked the BISH HQ formation. As soon as the B17 raid was spotted, a call went out on channel 2 for 163 pilots. I ditched my F4u and grabbed a 163 from field 10. I believe there were only 4-6 of us.

Gunnery on the part of the B17s was somewhat poor. I made 3 passes on a B17 formation, from the 7:00 and 8:00 position, each time passing within d50 of the bombers. My first two shots missed, but on my 3rd pass I ignited one of the bomber's wing tanks. Perhaps the bombers guns were inoperative, but my attacks were bordering on suicidal

Dinger · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2003, 01:18:02 AM »

Here's some other observations though:
yeah, the bar dar is a bit of an annoying tip off (it's so precise at the sector boundaries), but you know what? You can max that sucker out and people still won't scramble. You can pork a field's fuel, and sure, someone with brains will see that and a maxed dar bar 50 miles out, and start yelling on channel 2 "HQ Attack inbound!", but nobody will come. The ONLY time I've seen massive numbers repel an HQ attack was after they show up on radar as dots.

Ultimately, you've probably got an overkill situation. If it only takes 2 B17 forms to guarantee destruction of the HQ, you can probably fly those in and drop before being intercepted. If you take 12 B17 forms there, everybody who sees the blob inbound will be up in a komet.

Incidentally, we're looking at prime arado material here. Send some norden aces ahead in Ar-234s, and have them pave a path through the radar. Ar-234s are great for prestrike prep. I remember hooking up with a couple guys and flying a single Ar-234 for 4-hours -- climbout, go on station, liaise with a strike as it rolls, whack the field radar and fuel 10 minutes before the props arrive, land, rearm, repeat.

rod367th · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2003, 02:41:21 AM »

Well since i probally go to HQ more than most due to chores. i've had 6 163's on my single formation. Killed radar and KEv367th and I got 4 163's killed smoked 2 others and landed.

I see no problem with 163's. And Guys in my squad love gunning for me big perks killing 163's. so far I believe we have killed 50 163's not sure but know its close to that.

and Crow maw ty your right 1 bomber formation has better chance of gettting to HQ. and if you want to destory HQ just have second bomber 10miles to 15 miles trailing first bomber group. Takes time for 163's top land and reup

Pepe · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2003, 03:58:35 AM »

Unescorted Buffs massacred?? How unrealistic!!

Angus · « **Reply #24 on:** January 27, 2003, 05:58:35 AM »

The 163 system is just fine with me:)
Once I killed 2 in a single B17 sortie, so they are definately killable.
I also fly them a lot, wasting my perks, for I get killed in them too:)
To make a successful HQ raid now, and be protected against the 163, there is but a little thing to do:
1. Pork the fuel on the 163 base. 2 of the escorts, leading, can do that.
1b. Sacrifice 3-4 escorts to deack and vulch the base if ya don't want to pork the fuel. Or do both! Vulchers should be able to escape once the dark curtain of no Dar is drawn!
2. Have a good gunner on board.
3. Try to sneak a bit rather than steaming over several radar circles.

So stop complaining. 163 just adds a bit of spice to AH!

DoctorYO · « **Reply #25 on:** January 27, 2003, 07:35:32 AM »

Give me 2 pilots in mustangs (for the fuel and loiter time) and the 163 threat is cya...

163's still have to take off and when they do they get vulched....

pork their fuel on top of this gives them a choice to avoid being vulched and walling the throttle or trying to go after the bomber box... either way they burning fuel...

no fuel no 163's its just that simple...

If i was to form a HQ mission I's have the following..

2 boxes of B17 9 planes each formation. ( 6 pilots) each formation attacks the target entering from a different sector... 20k alt or higher for both boxes.

4 high alt escorts (p51's )

2 low alt jabo's / strafers with 500lbs rocks....

Total pilots 12.........

163 counter attack none....

Without a good plan youve already lost...

2 cents..

DoctorYo

muckmaw · « **Reply #26 on:** January 27, 2003, 08:24:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pepe
Unescorted Buffs massacred?? How unrealistic!!

Just for the record, we had 10 Escort fighters flying the wth the mission.

And there were alot of 163's as I shot down 2, assist on 1, and I saw at least 4-5 going down, with others still flying.

Pepe · « **Reply #27 on:** January 27, 2003, 09:22:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by muckmaw
Just for the record, we had 10 Escort fighters flying the wth the mission.

And there were alot of 163's as I shot down 2, assist on 1, and I saw at least 4-5 going down, with others still flying.

Sooooo: You killed a good bunch of them. Plus your escort were not doing their duties or they would have killed the rest, IMHO.

Cheers,

muckmaw · « **Reply #28 on:** January 27, 2003, 09:28:06 AM »

The escorts were doing their best but as you know, those little buggers are tough to catch.

They did their job, but as it was said earlier, better planning would have made the raid more succesful.

maxtor · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2003, 10:07:20 AM »

A high alt prop plane with a big gun is going to be a bigger danger to your bombers. 163's are a good last resort, but give me a 110 (even the C model) any day. Much more durable and many times the firepower (much more ammo)