B&Z vs. Furballing

[Rude]

Just wanted to share some personal observations due to my recent occupational change as a virtual fighter dude.

As many of you may or may not know, I had always favored the Boom and Zoom, E fighting school of air to air engagement. Recently, I had decided to explore the more direct 1v1, 2v1, in your face style of fighting. I have encouraged my squad to follow my lead and we have enjoyed learning the techniques and methods necessary for success...we still have a long way to go and much to learn.

What I want to share specifically was I've noticed that the majority of the furballs are so populated that to engage 1v1 or 2v1 is nearly impossible....as many as 6-8 planes will join my fun while I'm engaged in a 1v1 or 2v1 and end that fun promptly.

The fun for me personally in this game is gettin kills....my theory was that if I improve myself in the turn and burn genre, it would make me that much more of a challenging opponent to those I fight....I still feel that way and intend on stickin with what I've started. I just know that in a Mustang, if so inclined, I can enjoy 6-10 kill sorties on a regular basis....flying the new method of engagment might yield 2-4 kills and I end up gettin jumped...when I do find the smaller fuballs more evenly matched in numbers, I can survive these engagements and that adds to the fun.

What would some of you turnfighters suggest I do when trying to find a good fight in the MA....or should I just bag the MA entirely and spend the majority of my time 1v1 or 2v1 in the DA? Ya see, my problem comes with fighting stupid....I can possess the greatest 1v1 skills in the game, it's just that in these big furballs, I'm going to get smacked by some guy whose handle I don't even recognize....if I'm going to approach these engagements with alt and advantage, I might as well be flying the Mustang and that is contrary to my new goals.

Hope this makes some sense to some of you....this being Monday, my mind is on other obligations and I may have not communicated as clearly as I would have on a Friday:)

Thanks!

[Mugzeee]

Good Observations Rude.
i Went from BnZ to, Turn and Burn, then back to BnZ.
Why?
For the very reasons you stated.

   Its kinda a bummer to drag a single NME away from the Crowd......git in a nice long Stall fight and just when the adreinlin is pumped as you finally earned the NME 6-O-Clock, and ready to squeez off a few rounds. SOME Clown HORNS IN and Smokes the bogy Right in your Canopy!  Without even noticing or asking if you are wining or losin .  LOL,
Thanks but No Thanks.  Its Back to E-Fightin for me.
At least my Blood pressure is a a managble level.  
Mugzeee  PS.....we might have to bag the MA to git the desired situation you desire.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Rude
What would some of you turnfighters suggest I do when trying to find a good fight in the MA....or should I just bag the MA entirely and spend the majority of my time 1v1 or 2v1 in the DA? Ya see, my problem comes with fighting stupid....I can possess the greatest 1v1 skills in the game, it's just that in these big furballs, I'm going to get smacked by some guy whose handle I don't even recognize....if I'm going to approach these engagements with alt and advantage, I might as well be flying the Mustang and that is contrary to my new goals.

Though I know I'm preaching to the choir with you, I find I get the most enjoyment out of a massive furball like that when I go in with a like-minded wingman.  Someone who watches your back well substantially reduces the SA workload in such a target rich environment, and it's possible to fight off the hordes for awhile while mixing it up and working together.  Nothing satisfies me more than deck fighting with Nath on my wing and both of us bagging eight or more kills on guys BnZing us ad nauseum.

Also, the skills that make one successful 1v1 aren't necessarily those that make one a successful furball fighter, so you'll have to ask yourself which area you'd like to work on.  If 1v1, then the DA is the place to go.  Furballs are a different beast than dueling, however, and they require keeping a constant eye on all enemies and predicting their intentions and flight paths.  I find in a furball that I'm looking backwards as much as I am forwards even when I'm lining up a shot.  Furballing is about acquiring a target, dodging, picking up a new target, dodging, reacquiring, etc.  Sometimes I make a game out of it when I'm bored by not checking six until I kill the guy I'm on at the moment.  Talk about teaching one to kill quickly... if you don't kill the guy in a hurry, you can practically feel the seven other guys breathing down your neck without even looking.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[narsus]

I agree with Todd as well I have done the B&Z thing and do well, but there is nothing like a good 10 on 10 or even 5 on 10 furball. Looking behind and up more that forward and still getting the kill is a great feeling. Also your plane choice is very very important IMO. Spit V & IX, FM-2, F6F, c205, hurri etc. all great furballers. You can be succesful and land all these planes, even though there top speed are all that great.

When exiting a furball find the direction with the least amount of cons and kill your way out very exciting. Especially if you are outnumbered makes it that much better.

Just looked up scores for todd and myself,
Todd Spit V, Myself FM-2...I have not fought Leviathn in a furball yet, but damn looks like it would be a fun fight, although gunnery is double mine (ouch)

Leviathn why do you choose attack over fighter? just curious

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by narsus
Leviathn why do you choose attack over fighter? just curious

Laziness.    I just tend to hit the runway without paying attention to what my settings are in the hangar.  Most of my fighter sorties are probably in planes that just happened to be set to fighter at the time.  I guess the Spit V is set to attack for some reason.

I don't honestly do any ground attack beyond strafing the occasional ack or ground vehicle.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[BGBMAW]

Ying-Yang..

so is almost all of life....


Love BiGB
xoxo

[Exile]

if you want to measure you progress in 1 v 1, join the ladder:  http://simladder.com/h2h.php

[SLO]

1 of my last sorties of the weekend was in yak9T

2on1......190...spit9...again st me yak

made 190 crash...killed spit.....was fun:D


then of course the "your a dweeb flyin a dweeb plane comment" followed:rolleyes:

[SOB]

Rude, just point your nose in the direction of a firball and dive in.  The more you do it, the better you get a surviving...even though the unknown is always there and ready to take you out at any moment.  After a few weeks of furballing in planes designed for the task, mount back up in a Pony and apply what you've learned.  It's a blast, and when you manage to pull off a good kill in a turnfight with a turnfighter it's even better.  


SOB

[Shane]

it's a lot harder now with the MA so crowded.  I'd generally suggest the CT if you don't mind the historical "matchups."


but... if that's not your bag, what I do in MA (i don't like big base ops/furballs) is stay on the fringes, hang about a 1/2 sector around an enemy base but out of the main flight path to the furball.  generally 1 or 2 will wander over to check you out and you can have some fun, or you might be able to bait a few to follow you to that quiet area. you also might end up getting gangbanged if you take too long to have fun as other enemy wander over as well.  

or look for a quiet base, take an egg... knock out town acks... someone will generally up, maybe 2 maybe more - it's potluck - and you can have a few good fights close by the base (you can even stay lowish and have some pretty much co-alt/e fights with whatever ups - which will be a grab bag).

summed up... stay close, but not too close to the furball route and you can usually draw a less timid flyer over and have some fun.

it can be done on a smaller scale too, with 1, maybe 2 wingys.

you can also fly over an enemy base being furballed and intercept the 2nd line bases, staying off the direct path as many might be on their way to defend.

you can also look for a small enemy force heading to one of your bases and up and get some alt to engage them before it becomes a fullblown furball.

the advantages of the above over time in DA is the variety of planes and situations you find yourself in. in DA it's as often as not same planes, co-e co-alt... on those rare occasions when you find someone who doesn't mind a mix n match (like me) it'll often still be co-alt nose to nose merge.  i like variety, i like to be bounced, nothing gives me more satisfaction than nailing someone with an advantage over me, that's one skill set many simply to not possess.

[sax]

Rude, try climbing to 4k instead of 2k.

[Grimm]

I just wanted to point out....

Boom and Zoom and Energy fighter are different animals.    It seems like alot of folks confuse this.  

Diving on to a target,  extending , and diving again is your basic Boom and zoom tactics.  

Energy fighting is trying to maximize your energy while trying to gain angles on your target.  It may use BnZ and/or Turn tactics.  Often the first pass is not even an attempt to get a shot, but to gain advantage and angles on your opponet.  

Ill bet most of you guys are E fighters and not BnZ fighters.  

Its good to learn to knife fight with the bottom feeders, often a good fight will end up low and slow.  Its to your advantage to know how to fight well down there.  

I wish I was better at explaining the differences of E fighting v BnZ.   maybe someone else can do a better job than I.

[BNM]

Just glad to see you getting a dose of your own medicine. Sucks turnfighting a guy for 5 mins, finally get the kill and some La7/P-51 dweeb pops you at 500ias just as you check your 6 doesn't it?

Actually the best thing you can do is follow Shane's advice. That's about what I do most of the time.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Grimm
I just wanted to point out....
Boom and Zoom and Energy fighter are different animals.    It seems like alot of folks confuse this.  
I wish I was better at explaining the differences of E fighting v BnZ.   maybe someone else can do a better job than I.

simply put... BnZ is using altitude to get a kill. E fighting is using your plane's E-state and relative E-abilities to get the kill. regardless of your relative altitudes at the beginning of the encounter. BnZ is a form of E-fighting, as is angles (TnB - Turn and Burn) fighting; "pure" E-fighting is somewhere in between.

[Grimm]

Shane,

You hit the nail on the head as to how to find a good fight.   Its really fun to work the edges like that with a wingman also.  

Often after you shoot a guy down in that sort of situation, he will reup and come looking for you.   Those are often alot of fun and turn into some awsome fights.

(edit)
I am refering to fighting a 1/2 sector off a base, working around the edges of a mob ect....