Author Topic: Joystick... Force Feedback or no... (Read 1085 times)

Whitecat6598 · « **on:** January 27, 2003, 08:25:01 PM »

Gentlepersons....

I am a definite newcomer to AH, and over the last couple months, I have seen and learned a lot. Which is the way things should be for an olde tyme AW dweeb like myself.

I have searched this forum, and I have found much information about what is called "Force Feedback" joysticks.

Beings as you all kind people in the AH community have answered my questions with honest answers, I'd kind of like to know why or why not a FF stick is good for our AH environment or no.

The major plus to me, seems to be the elimination of "centering", and all the mechanical problems.... however, it also seems as though even though, some people would spend one hundred dollars for a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback, Version 2... the benefits outweigh the cost, when it comes to being able to center up on a target.

I have covered pretty much a zillion thoughts that could lead to a million personal opinions about "force feedback".

I'm just kind of curious what "force feedback" will do to my own accuracy, and my own experiences within AH.

I kind of went from point A to point C and back to point B with this question... I hope the reader of this question kind of "gets" what I am asking... In other words, why should I get one or not... being a dweeb like myself.

Best Regards,

WC

Suave · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2003, 08:47:03 PM »

Force Feedback sticks ? Basically they are uncooperative sticks that throw fits while you're trying to do precision work .

eskimo2 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2003, 09:12:25 PM »

Wlcome to AH Whitecat!

I use and like my CH Pro: fighterstick, rudders, and throttle, and recomend them. They are about $100 each. A lot of other folks like the TM Cougar stuff.

Either way, if you think you are going to be doing this, or any flight sim quite a bit, you won't regret buying good stuff.

eskimo

SirLoin · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2003, 09:34:18 PM »

HI WhiteCat!

I use nothing but MS FFB Pro...It is kinda funny but I won't use anything else....It's clunky but solid and very well built.....FFB gives you a feel on the stik for the "stall envelope" and adds immensly to emersion for me...Other people hate it.....If HOTAS ever came out with FFB I would switch.

Whitecat6598 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2003, 09:51:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SirLoin
HI WhiteCat!

I use nothing but MS FFB Pro...It is kinda funny but I won't use anything else....It's clunky but solid and very well built.....FFB gives you a feel on the stik for the "stall envelope" and adds immensly to emersion for me...Other people hate it.....If HOTAS ever came out with FFB I would switch.

Eskimo, Suave, thanks for your opinions... but pretty much committed to spending the monies... I'd just like to hear how other folks deal with FFB.

SirLoin... So far, from what you said it sounds good... I like flying on the edge, and if a FFB stick could give me the "feel" of the edge of a stall (accellerated or otherwise) I would like that.

So, I take it that you advise such.

WC

NUKE · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2003, 09:56:40 PM »

I would never want a force feedback fighting my control of the stick.

I just got a CH Pro fighter stick to complete my CH Pro rudder, Throttle.

I couldn't be more impressed by the control of the CH stick......I pretty much have built in auto angle with this thing..... wherever I let go of the stick, the plane will stay rock solid on that course.

I also don't need to have any deadband anymore. I have almost zero nose bounce and hardly ever can make my pony sping anymore unless I really want it to.

It's worth every penny IMO too.

WldThing · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2003, 10:01:30 PM »

I had a logitech Force feedback stick and the damn thing needed to be recalibrated every time i rolled.. The stick would kick me out of autoclimb every time..

I didnt like it much so it went back to the store...

SpinDoc1 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2003, 11:09:17 PM »

I'm pretty much under the impression that Logitech stuff sucks, I don't like their equipment, it always spiked on me, and never had a great button setup. I LOVE my MS Force Feedback 2. While I don't have the cash (or the space in my dorm room...) for a HOTAS Cougar, it would be a great setup. In the meantime, the MS FFB2 is a great stick. I totally agree with SirLoin, feeling the stall and reaction of the aircraft is a nice touch, and adds as much to immersion as Mitsu's sound packs do. Hope your invesment is worthwhile, enjoy!

SunKing · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2003, 11:39:11 PM »

FF sticks were cool back in the Crimson Skies days.. After a week of AH I promptly sold my FF stick and went all CH USB. Like he said.. not good for precision work and snap shots.

Whitecat6598 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2003, 12:11:46 AM »

So.......... From what I have read so far... those that use FFB sticks love the way they enhance the game, and those that don't use them could actually live forever without an FFB. Unless there is a third side of the coin here.

I've known of several sticks, and even some that were called "mouse sticks"... like Gravis and others. My main question here is that (regardless of my own personal opinion about any FFB stick) to put it bluntly:

Does a (say) Microsoft Sidewinder Pro FFB, (Version II), or even Joe's Super Pro FFB, (Version XXIV), make a real difference in AH??? I am (desperately) trying to find an excuse to spend the hundred bux.... but at the same time, I really don't want to spend that unless there is a darn good reason for doing so.

Please fellow AH heros and friends, I really am not trying to start a joystick flame war here... I am just looking for the advantages of an FFB joystick, over not having one. However, at the same time, if my current stick (MS Sidewinder Pro [without FFB]) is "basically" the same thing, then I get to keep my hundred bux in my pocket.

That way I'll have more money for beer!!?

Best regards, and thanks folks!

WC

ccvi · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2003, 01:34:34 AM »

My FF stick doesn't work. Forces don't get updated too often, first minutes of flight after game start there's no FF on the roll axis.

As soon as there are forces it's like a normal stick except it doesn't center too well. There IS a center that's at a constant stick position, just the forces in the center are very weak.

Stall/Gun/Damage-Shaking works, but I tuned it down a lot, it doesn't help flying

Uncle · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2003, 03:04:27 AM »

Whitecat:
I've got my MS FF2 sitting in a corner collecting dust. I bought a TM Afterburner non FF. If you do a lot of buffing don't even think of buying a FF stick. The self centering feature of non FF sticks is crucial to precision bombing. Plus the sticks in RL aeroplanes do self center unlike FF sticks.
My two bobs worth.

Uncle.

AKWeav · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2003, 07:48:05 AM »

FFB sticks are fine, until yoor plane receives any damage. Then the thing will shake like crazy while you're trying to rtb your crippled bird, requiring you to use thumb and finger tips to manlipulat the stick to prevent covering the eye which enables the ffb. A consideration.

maxtor · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2003, 08:06:12 AM »

I like my FFB sidewinder, because without the springs you get more positive control. I set damping and deadbands to zero (no POTS to wear out mocrosoft sticks use LED's instead) and all the sliders to 100%. As for the forces, they are extensivelyadjustable (like everythign else in AH), even the damage shake as someone else described is tuneable. (it is also extremely good for bombsite calibration - since no spiking from a bad/dirty POT)

I like mine FFB pre pro II very much, but that is just my opinion

Edit to add, since Air Warrior on AOL days - (and after destroying a cheapy Gravis disposable stick) I have only had 2 sticks, first was a Microsoft Pre Pro (still works perfect) and now this FFB version of same.

Suave · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2003, 09:55:13 AM »

Yep nobody makes an X and Y axis like microsoft, although CH comes close. Can you use an MS stick with the cougar throttle ?