Ammo Counters: Why We Shouldn't Have Them.

[Karnak]

As I was playing last night, I realized that one of the few areas where EAW was more acurate than AH was in its handling of ammo counters.  Most aircraft didn't have them and the few that did (all German) had analog bars that lowered as you used ammo.  Why in a sim that has the best WWII FM do we have digital ammo counters that show us the exact number of rounds we have left?

One of the things that I enjoyed about EAW was having to mentally keep track of about how many rounds my Spit had left.  That is completely absent from AH.

I would like AH to model each aircraft's historical ammo tracking capabilities.  In most cases this would mean no ammo tracking.  In the case of some Bf, Fw and Me aircraft it would mean analog bars.  Bars begin at equal length even if the inboard cannon have more ammo than the outboard cannon.  The outboard cannon bar would simply shrink faster.  For Allied fliers, tough.  You'll have to track the amount of ammo you have left in your mind.

The BKSP key would still cycle through the BTN2 options and the option names would still be shown.  However all digital, e.g. exact, ammo counters would be removed.

What do you guys thing?

Anybody from HTC, what do you think?  If the idea has already been discussed and abandoned, I'd be curious to know why.

Kiitos

Sisu
-Karnak

[funked]

I'd love to see the counters removed on aircraft that didn't have them, or changed to reflect the real configuration.  I honestly don't think it would take very long for us to learn to estimate the amount of ammo remaining.

[Pongo]

yup

[Yeager]

Yes, but what of the dweebs?

They will flutter and fold!

 

Yeager

[Citabria]

I lobbied for this a while back with no success but I still think its a feature we need for historical and realistic combat.


every time you read a combat report from the allies they mentioned they counted in their heads how long they fired their guns ie 1 second 2 seconds etc.

the pilots knew the firing duration of their guns and guestimated their ammo load.

they LW had the analog bars but these were less precise than the digital bullet counters


an option worth having and one we will need for scenarios.

[Ripsnort]

They could add a variation of color to the last tracers as a clue that you're low.

[popeye]

Didn't the Allies use tracers to indicate low ammo, then abandon the practice when the enemy caught on?  

I could live without ammo counters in planes that didn't have them.

popeye

[Toad]

I'm for the historical representation.

[Downtown]

Have you ever been to the grocery store and gotten your reciept with a red ink on the border.  It marks when you are getting to the end of the roll (same with teletype Paper)

The armorers would load the last 15 or 20 rounds from each belt with tracers.  I also believe that they went from every five to every three rounds for the last 100 to 20 (80 rounds.)

I wouldn't mind seeing the ammo counters gone either, make more space on the cluttered instrument panels.

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"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

[Karnak]

Only if we could chose not to have the special, low ammo tracers.  I'd not want to clue my opponent in on my poor situation.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Mighty1]

Not to sound like a smart bellybutton but how is this going to improve the game?

I personaly like the counters and have no problems with them not being historically acurate.

If it was something that really took away from the game then I would say "Yes take it away" but I don't really think it does.



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Mighty1
The New Baby Harp Seals
"Come try to club THIS Seal"

[BotaBing]

Well...

Its very accurate to have ammo counters on bombers. Gunners were standing there feeding their guns with belt-fed ammo, and they would easily be able to see how much they had left.

Its also very accurate to have ammo counters in ground vehicles for the same reasons.

I agree that as far as single-seat planes are concerned, with wing/nose mounted guns, with automatic feed, its not very realistic to have an exact count of the ammo.

However, I think the zeke guns are inside the cockpit right, so you should be able to count those.

[Karnak]

I agree that bomber and ground vehicle guns should have some sort of indicator.  Exact if need be.

Mighty1, what this would bring to the sim is the need to mentally keep track of your ammo use in the same manner as the pilots who actually flew and fought in these machines had too.  If it is to be considered a sim of the hardware (which is what it is because it isn't in a historical setting) then the hardware should be simulated as well as is possible.  The ammo counters detract from the simulation aspect of AH.

Botabing, only the tail end of the Zero's guns are in the cockpit.  The ammo feed is not visible or accessible from the cockpit and as such it should not have an ammo indicator.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Fariz]

I really love this idea! Counter may stay for TA where people practive how to fly (as an option?), but in SEA it shall be removed or at least CM shall have the possibility to disable digital counter.

 
 

[miko2d]

 Didn't they use to fly the same and only model of an aircraft for months so that they could get used to all it's particulars?

 Come on, guys. AH is a simulation. Those ammo counters model your simulated experience on this type of an aircraft, same as blacking out of the screen simulates G-forces.
miko--